BRXII Battle talk

[Redfin]

He would be restricted if He were to be subject to your scrutiny (which by the way He isn't) and had to save every single soul, as you 'force' Him to with your imagined theology of universalism.

In your flawed theology of eternal torment, God is truly restricted because He is forced to surrender eternally to sin the vast majority of souls. Though you won't admit it, you make Him out to be a :loser: That's unacceptable.

Too many things in The Word of God show His Anger at sin and His severe punishment of it. He didn't do that as a game. It is designed to warn men and to steer them to The Only One Who can save them from hell: Jesus.

Yes, Jesus, the One Who by His sacrifice completely satisfied God's anger for all sin, by bearing the entire punishment, making any further punishment unnecessary. This acknowledges God as :first:

 

[Aimiel]

In your flawed theology of eternal torment...

You still haven't shown me a single flaw. Your characterization of my theology is therefore in error.

...God is truly restricted because He is forced to surrender eternally to sin the vast majority of souls.

No, He isn't restricted at all. He sent Jesus, Who is The Savior of all men, but not all men accept Him. Just like you, they refuse truth all day long.

Though you won't admit it, you make Him out to be a (loser)

It isn't that I refuse, it is just that men rejecting God doesn't make Him a loser; it makes the rejects losers, you :loser:

 

[Redfin]

You still haven't shown me a single flaw.

Watch and learn... :think:

"...it is just that men rejecting God doesn't make Him a loser; it makes the rejects losers"

According to you, God is the reject! :hammer:

 

[Aimiel]

According to you, God is the reject!

I've never said any such thing. According to you, what He said isn't what He meant. I guess He should have taken language lessons from you before He went and opened His Big Mouth. :chuckle:

 

[Ecumenicist]

Nin,

I cannot say that all people believe the same thing on all points that believe in Universal Salvation any more than you could say that all people that believe in eternal torment believe the same thing on all points.

We're differentiated on Universalism somewhat as well.

I'm now convinced that the lake of fire is the same as the flaming sword that seperated
Adam and Eve from paradise. One narrow gate, welcoming the repentent, and repelling
the "lost."

God ultimately casts, or pulls, people into the the lake, the sword, so that they might
experience purgative healing on the way in. Or, if the seed is corrupted beyond
redemption, the experience may be annihilative in nature, which at least ends suffering.

djm

 

[Ecumenicist]

One reason I left the faith is because I believed that the Bible was fairly clear on the doctrine of eternal torment, and that it reflected the views that Nin and Aimiel espouse. I didn't know about the interpretations Logos_X is offering. I'd like to believe he's correct -- I think he does present a cogent argument. But a straight reading of the Bible in English led me to believe that the doctrine of eternal torment is, indeed, Biblical. At first, I didn't have a problem with the doctrine -- I accepted it on faith, and didn't think about it (in terms of theologically questioning it). But later, I DID come to think seriously about it, and decided it was unacceptable and immoral. And I left.

And, based on this rejection and subsequent study, you've led many to consider
the nondualistic nature of God in Christ, and the nondualistic heart of Christ within
being the source of true enlightenment.

Garden variety Buddheo-Christian evangelist?

 

[Aimiel]

I'm now convinced that the lake of fire is the same as the flaming sword that seperated Adam and Eve from paradise. One narrow gate, welcoming the repentent, and repelling the "lost."

God ultimately casts, or pulls, people into the the lake, the sword, so that they might experience purgative healing on the way in. Or, if the seed is corrupted beyond redemption, the experience may be annihilative in nature, which at least ends suffering.

If your 'summary' were anywhere remotely near the truth, God would have said things much differently than He has. Seeing as He hasn't, we have to go with what He has said, thank you very much. He has said that the Lake of Fire will be the unending habitation of those whose names aren't found written in The Lamb's Book of Life. God doesn't pull anyone into the Lake of Fire. It is His Desire that men might be saved from their sins. The Lake of Fire isn't the source of healing, it is the source of pain. Jesus provided our healing.

 

[logos_x]

Obviously you read posts on TOL with as much comprehension as you do The Bible. I said that the definition of one word isn't important, and mentioned that the preponderance of the evidence in scripture makes your 'definition' moot.

Then it makes YOURS moot as well, pal.

Truth is..the ONLY way eternal torment is even in your translation of the Bible is because they define AION as an endless one. One four letter greek word makes the difference between what you believe and what I believe.

The Bible NEVER says THAT aion is endless anywhere.

This makes your supposed argument above ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[Aimiel]

Then it makes YOURS moot as well, pal.

No, it doesn't, obviously, dude.

Truth is..the ONLY way eternal torment is even in your translation of the Bible is because they define AION as an endless one.

Truth is: you're hung up by the scripture that sticks in your crawl, becuase you can't accept sound docrine.

One four letter greek word makes the difference between what you believe and what I believe.

If that's the case, then why do you insist upon giving precedence to that univeralism nonsense? I believe it is from the desire of your heart, for some strange reason, to usurp The Word of God with this heresy of universalism. It simply doesn't make sense. :hammer:

 

[logos_x]

No, it doesn't, obviously, dude.Truth is: you're hung up by the scripture that sticks in your crawl, becuase you can't accept sound docrine.If that's the case, then why do you insist upon giving precedence to that univeralism nonsense? I believe it is from the desire of your heart, for some strange reason, to usurp The Word of God with this heresy of universalism. It simply doesn't make sense. :hammer:

Aimiel, what can I say?

I don't believe it is in God's best interest to make an eternal misery when He clearly wants to save us, reconciling us nto Himself. He simply would not make it impossible to do...NOTHING is impossible for God when it come to saving mankind and subsequently the entire creation back to himself.

The doctrine of eternal torment raises the problem of evil to impossible heights. Even God cannot save completely His own creation.

The doctrine deserves to be re-examined, and reformation is in order.

That is what I believe. You are on the opposing "side". That's all there is to it.

 

[Redfin]

I've never said any such thing. According to you, what He said isn't what He meant. I guess He should have taken language lessons from you before He went and opened His Big Mouth. :chuckle:

It isn't that I refuse, it is just that men rejecting God doesn't make Him a loser; it makes the rejects loser..."

There are only 2 options, reject and rejecter.

According to you, God's rejection by men (the rejectors) limits His (the reject) options forever.

 

[Aimiel]

Aimiel, what can I say?

I don't expect you to say anything. You're in error, following heresy, and won't hear sound doctrine. All you can say is, "I don't believe The Bible," at least that would be honest.

 

[Aimiel]

God being rejected by someone doesn't make Him a 'reject' by any stretch of the imagination (except perhaps the imagination of a demon). I have heard countless people curse God. Does that mean that He is a curse? He is The Blesser. He cannot curse anyone. He doesn't have anything bad in His Hand to give to anyone. Those who've rejected Him in this life will not go into His Presence. They will hear, "Depart from Me, I never knew you." Since you don't believe The Word of God, you may hear the same. I can hear you now, "But Lord, I thought everyone would be saved." Why do you call Him 'Lord' but don't believe what He said?

 

[Redfin]

"God being rejected by someone doesn't make Him a 'reject'..."

Flaw! :loser:

 

[Aimiel]

Flaw! :loser:

You're an idiot. :comeout:

 

[Redfin]

You're an idiot. :comeout:

Yes, a very effective (and typical) response. :think:

 

[Redfin]

"Cluelessness is a choice."

Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy!

 

[red77]

I don't expect you to say anything. You're in error, following heresy, and won't hear sound doctrine. All you can say is, "I don't believe The Bible," at least that would be honest.

You really dont have any answers do you? You're in a corner because one undebatable part of ET is that its believers think that all things are not possible for God - otherwise restoring the world would AT LEAST be a possibility for God, you believe -categorically - that it isnt, why dont YOU admit that God cannot achieve his own will?

 

[CabinetMaker]

You really dont have any answers do you? You're in a corner because one undebatable part of ET is that its believers think that all things are not possible for God - otherwise restoring the world would AT LEAST be a possibility for God, you believe -categorically - that it isnt, why dont YOU admit that God cannot achieve his own will?

I believe in ET and I believe that God can and does accomplish His will. Where we disagree is over what God's will is. You say it is God will save everybody even if He has to burn them into believing by throwing them into the lake of fire for an age-during. I say God has laid out the rules and explained the consequences and given is the ability and the right to choose.

 

[red77]

I believe in ET and I believe that God can and does accomplish His will. Where we disagree is over what God's will is. You say it is God will save everybody even if He has to burn them into believing by throwing them into the lake of fire for an age-during. I say God has laid out the rules and explained the consequences and given is the ability and the right to choose.

God's will is for all men to be saved and find a knowledge of the truth isnt it? Did he come to save the world or just a fraction of it? Its God's will that none should perish......therefore God does NOT achieve his own will if ET is true, it really is as basic as that, unless you believe that it was God's will from the dawn of creation to lose the vast majority of his own creation to an eternal sin infested misery pit - it does not make any sense....and the Bible says that this is not what God intended or wants - but he cant accomplish his own will - because of the free will of man? Do you not think that God knows how fallible people are, were the disciples not astonished when asking who could be saved? and again - what was the answer given to them? :think: