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  • #46
    Originally posted by Kimberlyann
    What about the billions of people who have never even heard of Jesus or the Gospel. Do they choose to go to Hell?


    God..."desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

    I believe He will accomplish all His desire.

    He said so Himself...."Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it. (Isa. 46:10-11)
    A just and loving God would never leave people without a choice. He will make sure they hear hat they need to hear.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Lighthouse
      A just and loving God would never leave people without a choice. He will make sure they hear hat they need to hear.
      I agree.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Lighthouse
        Actually, they would walk into hell. Then they would be thrown into the lake of fire, when hell is. However, they wouldn't have to go to hell voluntarily. All they would have to do is reject Christ.
        In tht case your earlier post about God "allowing" people to go to the lake of fire made no sense Lighthouse.....obviously no person is going to 'walk' into hell or the lake of fire by their own free will but forced there, there's no love of any kind in that if you believe both hell and the LOF to be places of torment that carry on to eternity with no other purpose than to cause agonising pain
        "Either these curtains go or I do...."

        - Oscar Wilde on deathbed

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Kimberlyann
          No, God isn't sadistic. I can't imagine God having to force anyone to spend eternity with Him once they know the truth.
          Kimberlyann, YES or NO... does Satan know the "truth"?

          follow-up.....
          YES or NO, does the truth compel Satan to humble himself to God?
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          • #50
            Originally posted by red77
            In tht case your earlier post about God "allowing" people to go to the lake of fire made no sense Lighthouse.....obviously no person is going to 'walk' into hell or the lake of fire by their own free will but forced there, there's no love of any kind in that if you believe both hell and the LOF to be places of torment that carry on to eternity with no other purpose than to cause agonising pain
            Are you really that thick? No one is forced to go to hell. No one. They go of their own free will, because they use that will to reject Christ. There is no other alternative. The only reason you can say they are forced into the lake of fire is that hell is thrown into the lake of fire, and there really is no choice after you have decided to reject Christ. If you decided to do that, then you have chosen hell, and thereby have chosen the lake of fire. Whether the lake of fire is eternal conscious torment, or if it's annihilation doesn't even matter at this point. All we know for sure is that no one is getting out of either.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by Lighthouse
              Are you really that thick? No one is forced to go to hell. No one. They go of their own free will, because they use that will to reject Christ. There is no other alternative. The only reason you can say they are forced into the lake of fire is that hell is thrown into the lake of fire, and there really is no choice after you have decided to reject Christ. If you decided to do that, then you have chosen hell, and thereby have chosen the lake of fire. Whether the lake of fire is eternal conscious torment, or if it's annihilation doesn't even matter at this point. All we know for sure is that no one is getting out of either.
              you are being ridiculous, noone with the smallest vestrige of sanity would "choose" to go into a place of torment, like it or not people would be forced into the place and you must be fully aware of that...its hardly a matter of 'choice' or 'God allowing' people to do anything by your theology
              "Either these curtains go or I do...."

              - Oscar Wilde on deathbed

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Knight
                Kimberlyann, YES or NO... does Satan know the "truth"?
                That's a tough question. I don't know how much truth Satan knows. I don't believe Satan was a perfect angel that willfully gave up his place in heaven. I believe he was created to be God's adversary in the beginning.
                follow-up.....
                YES or NO, does the truth compel Satan to humble himself to God?
                If not now, we know that He will. "...at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:10-11)

                I look forward to this debate, it will be fun to watch Pastor Kevin and Logos battle it out.

                See you in The Grandstands

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Kimberlyann
                  That's a tough question. I don't know how much truth Satan knows.
                  Wow. You really believe that Satan doesn't know for sure that God exists??? That's just plain bizarre Kimberlyann. Not to be rude but....have you read the Bible?

                  I don't believe Satan was a perfect angel that willfully gave up his place in heaven. I believe he was created to be God's adversary in the beginning.
                  Huh????

                  That's not what the Bible says.
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Kimberlyann
                    I believe he was created to be God's adversary in the beginning.
                    ahhh yes, God's eternal plan to create enemies against himself. Then there is always that Bible story about God shooting himself in the foot because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
                    It is bad enough that so many people believe things without any evidence. What is worse is that some people have no conception of evidence and regard facts as just someone else's opinion.
                    -Thomas Sowell

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by cfisher
                      ahhh yes, God's eternal plan to create enemies against himself. Then there is always that Bible story about God shooting himself in the foot because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
                      You forgot the sarcasm smilie!

                      Point well made!
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                      • #56
                        I think the debate in the Grandstands ought to be interesting too from the looks of it.


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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Knight
                          Wow. You really believe that Satan doesn't know for sure that God exists??? That's just plain bizarre Kimberlyann. Not to be rude but....have you read the Bible?[
                          Of course Satan knows God exists.

                          Originally posted by Knight
                          Originally posted by Kimberlyann
                          I don't believe Satan was a perfect angel that willfully gave up his place in heaven. I believe he was created to be God's adversary in the beginning.
                          Huh????

                          That's not what the Bible says.

                          No, the Bible says that Satan was a sinner from the beginning.
                          He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)
                          It also says that he was a liar and murder from the beginning.
                          Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)

                          He wasn’t a perfect angel that transformed himself into Satan, that’s what he wants you to believe. Satan transformed himself into an angel of light.
                          And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Cor. 11:44)
                          God created evil.
                          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isa 45:7)

                          God created the destroyer.
                          Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. (Isa. 54:16)

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by cfisher
                            ahhh yes, God's eternal plan to create enemies against himself. Then there is always that Bible story about God shooting himself in the foot because it seemed like a good idea at the time.
                            I think Satan is part of Gods eternal plan.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Kimberlyann
                              I think Satan is part of Gods eternal plan.
                              Do you believe that Satan is a free will being?
                              http://prolifeprofiles.com/

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by PastorKevin
                                I think the debate in the Grandstands ought to be interesting too from the looks of it.


                                I'm going to bow out now. You and Logos have at it.

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