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Discussion thread: One on One: AMR and JCWR on the Temporality of God

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  • Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by P8ntrDan View Post
    Time is the passing of events. Therefore, for time to exist, there has to be a first event. If God has always been, there never was a first event. Therefore, there was a time were time where time didn't exist (no pun intended). There was a 'time' where God simply was.
    That is a lot to ponder. And it is true that God can overcome things that we cannot i.e., time passing eternally into the past.

    Why not consider creation the beginning of time, especial since Genesis says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."?
    Because we know that not everything was created at creation (Love, mercy, power, and so on). In fact we know specifically what was created at creation and time wasn't one of those things mentioned.

    Why assume something from the text that is clearly NOT mentioned?

    The creation account is there for anyone to read. If God had created time (which is irrational i.e., how long did it take God to create time? ) I am sure He would have mentioned it in the creation account.

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  • Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I don't think that God did nothing before creation. It seems that Satan challenged God during this time before creation and was cast down. Satan was in the garden maybe from the moment it was created.
    I believe that the Bible describes Satan falling after he was placed in the garden. But that's another topic.

    He probably created angles during this time since Lucifer was created being. Kind of makes me wonder how the angles perceive time...
    And of course there was the fellowship within the godhead. So yes, I agree God certainly did things (whatever they might have been) prior to creation. Doesn't that indicate that there was time prior to creation?

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  • Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Yes, come and join us. The coffee is great and I have learned several things from them. We all have things that we have always believed that we have never really questioned. Descussion like this make us look at some of those beliefs and see if they make sense in light of scripture. Come with a mind open to different points of view and a heart open to Christ and you will learn too! (You'll probably have fun while you're at it.)
    I will admit that when I go back and read some of my posts (even in this thread) they come off a bit rude and arrogant. That isn't my intention I promise you. I don't think that I write very well. On second thought... I KNOW that I do not write very well. If we were talking in person I would do a much better job simply conversing with you. When it's just words on a screen there are no gestures, no sarcastic laughs, no indications of silliness, or friendly nudges etc. so it can appear that a post is different than it is intended.
    Last edited by Knight; December 25th, 2008, 11:28 AM.

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  • Stripe
    replied
    Originally posted by Lon View Post
    Of course not, didn't I say so?

    Blessings
    I can't keep track. You did upgrade "mischaracterisations" to "inaccuracies".

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  • Lon
    replied
    Originally posted by Stripe View Post
    Yeah, I'm biased.

    Still, I don't think you'd be upset with every line. Afterall .. a few of them are AMR's own words...
    Of course not, didn't I say so?

    Blessings

    Leave a comment:


  • P8ntrDan
    replied
    Originally posted by Knight View Post
    Time IS the passing of events.What makes you think that the godhead did nothing prior to creation?

    Was God in some sort of eternal sleep and suddenly just "popped" into action at creation???

    God is the living God (that's how He describes Himself), therefore there is no reason to assume that God didn't think, act, fellowship, relate, act, or anything else that He chose to do prior to creation.
    Time is the passing of events. Therefore, for time to exist, there has to be a first event. If God has always been, there never was a first event. Therefore, there was a time were time where time didn't exist (no pun intended). There was a 'time' where God simply was. Why not consider creation the beginning of time, especial since Genesis says "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stripe
    replied
    Originally posted by Lon View Post
    Meh, this overview is loaded. I think mine was more unbiased though brought up my biased concerns. This is one is somewhat accurate but with more inaccuracies. It is a strictly OV-biased assessment.
    Yeah, I'm biased.

    Still, I don't think you'd be upset with every line. Afterall .. a few of them are AMR's own words...

    Leave a comment:


  • CabinetMaker
    replied
    Originally posted by Knight View Post
    Time IS the passing of events.What makes you think that the godhead did nothing prior to creation?

    Was God in some sort of eternal sleep and suddenly just "popped" into action at creation???

    God is the living God (that's how He describes Himself), therefore there is no reason to assume that God didn't think, act, fellowship, relate, act, or anything else that He chose to do prior to creation.
    I don't think that God did nothing before creation. It seems that Satan challenged God during this time before creation and was cast down. Satan was in the garden maybe from the moment it was created.

    He probably created angles during this time since Lucifer was created being. Kind of makes me wonder how the angles perceive time...

    Leave a comment:


  • CabinetMaker
    replied
    Originally posted by hippiechyck View Post
    i should probably not continue here, i'm not a very good debater i just know what i believe, and that is God is on the throne and He knows all...past, present and future
    Originally posted by Knight View Post
    It's OK, we aren't even debating. CabinetMaker is one of my all-time favorite TOL'ers. We are just discussing the issues over a cup of steaming hot coffee. Relax, ask and answer questions and just enjoy yourself!!!
    Yes, come and join us. The coffee is great and I have learned several things from them. We all have things that we have always believed that we have never really questioned. Descussion like this make us look at some of those beliefs and see if they make sense in light of scripture. Come with a mind open to different points of view and a heart open to Christ and you will learn too! (You'll probably have fun while you're at it.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by P8ntrDan View Post
    Bump
    But, doesn't time require the passing of events?
    Time IS the passing of events.
    Should nothing happen from one moment to the next (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING) would time have passed? Can't we just say that before creation, God simply was?
    What makes you think that the godhead did nothing prior to creation?

    Was God in some sort of eternal sleep and suddenly just "popped" into action at creation???

    God is the living God (that's how He describes Himself), therefore there is no reason to assume that God didn't think, act, fellowship, relate, act, or anything else that He chose to do prior to creation.

    Leave a comment:

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