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  • Dear Jerry:

    You are being ridiculous.

    You asked me whether or not I believe you are saved. I answered you honestly.What did you want me to do,lie?
    No, I wanted to expose how you elevate eschatology to a salvational issue since you made plenty of insinuations but did not have the guts to come right out and say it.

    And I do not elevate eschatology to a salvation issue.I told you beforte that I judge whether or not one is saved based on whether or not one believes God.
    Completely circular, since by your defintion, if one is not a futurist, then one does not believe God, then one is not saved. A rose by another name.....

    If you were not prepared for my answer,then you should have not asked me the question.

    I was completely prepared for it, and I pity you for it.

    And no,this is not the way I witness to the truth of God.However,you are a special case because you are on a public forum and your teaching can lead others astray.Therefore,I am treating you diffently than I would someone who has never heard the gospel.
    The context of my question Jerry was your completely callous remark on the other thread when I told you that my brother has cancer..... It was not your behavior in the debate...

    And Dee Dee,I am sorry that your brother has cancer.But we all have problems,and many of us have problems much worse than yours.However,it is in the periods of time that we are going through serious problems that we grow the most.
    What you give with one hand, you take away with the other.

    And I am not condemning all those who hold your views as unsaved.However,I would question the salvation of anyone who would continue to hold those views after having been shown the truth and continue to insist that they are not in error.
    So I ask again abuot RC Sproul, D. James Kennedy, Kenneth Gentry, Gary DeMar, and Hank Hanegraaf?? Are you presuming that these men don't understand futurism??

    You asked me for my opinion and I told you.
    Yes, wonders never cease, for once you actually answered a question.

    s to me that NOW all anyone is interested in is attempting to somehow denegrate the other person,instead of discussing the issues in a reasonable manner.Why would you even botherr to come on these forums if you are taking a rest from substantive issues?
    And that is your business because??? Maybe because I enjoy the fellowship?? Maybe because its a good distraction?? Maybe because I just darn well fell like it and don't care if you approve or not?? You are a real piece of work. I am going to enjoy thrasing you some more.

    Comment


    • Revelation717,

      The Lord Jesus Christ brought in "everlasting righteousness" to all that believe.Just because the Lord Jesus went to Jerusalem does not mean that "everlasting righteousness"came upon the children of Israel or upon Jerusalem.That is NOT the meaning of the following verse:

      "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,to finish the transgression,and to make an end of sins,and to make reconciliation for iniquity,and to bring in everlasting righteousness,and to seal up the vision and prophecy,and to annoint the most Holy"(Dan.9:24).

      And you quote some verses I presume you think proves that the church is the bride,but you proved nothing.Again,it is obvious that you do not understand the difference between the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ.The Church is His Body,not His bride.

      And you can´t seem to realize that the words of prophecy can be fulfilled more than once,even though I have demonstrated that it can.You now will not say whether or not Revelation 1:7 has been fulfilled.All you are doing is dodging the point that we are discussing.

      According to you,if it is fulfilled,it cannot be fulfilled again.But we see that even after the prophecy was fulfilled,it is fulfilled again.There is nothing that can limit how many times a prophecy can be fulfilled.

      Comment


      • And you quote some verses I presume you think proves that the church is the bride,but you proved nothing.Again,it is obvious that you do not understand the difference between the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ.The Church is His Body,not His bride.
        Eph:5:31: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
        Eph:5:32: This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



        Enlighten us with God's word then Jerry. If this proves nothing concerning the Lord's Bride then we must forsake what the Bible OBVIOUSLY says and rely on you Jerry. I think it is obvious. Just as obvious as John 19:37 says Zech 12:10 is fulfilled.


        The Lord Jesus Christ brought in "everlasting righteousness" to all that believe.Just because the Lord Jesus went to Jerusalem does not mean that "everlasting righteousness"came upon the children of Israel or upon Jerusalem.That is NOT the meaning of the following verse:
        I realize the fallacy of your thinking now.

        You seem to feel God's promises are dependant upon people and not upon God's Soverignty.

        Because most Jews live in unbelief of Jesus as Messiah then God's word is of no effect, the promises that were to be fulfilled in a SPECIFIC time period cannot be fulfilled, even though the NT preaches it front to back, becuase the nation of the Jews have not attained everlasting righteousness.

        Well Jerry, then you must show us from the Bible how they will attain this righteousness in unbelief.

        How will this be fulfilled? BOOK CHAPTER VERSE please!

        What did Jesus do while ministering to Israel? And why is what He did so special?

        You never did answer that. You never did quote what you accused me of either! At least I was honest enough to show you from your own mouth that you do pervert the truth and lie without shame.

        As much as it pains me to say it, I question your salvation Jerry with great severity! You deny Jesus Christ in most everything you say. If the Lord return today, let Him have mercy on you but more so let Him give you a heart of repentance before that great and final day.
        Last edited by Revelation717; September 18th, 2002, 03:00 PM.
        Oh man, would ya look at this...we got alot of work to do!

        Comment


        • Dee Dee,

          Do I understand you to have said that you are taking a rest from substantive issues? Hey, I feel like that today myself! I even wrote a poem on the dispy thread! But if ANYONE needs a REST, YOU DO! After 10 rounds with a disp, and THEN some, ANYONE WOULD!



          Revelation 22
          14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

          15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

          Comment


          • Dear Rapt:

            Yes, I am taking a rest. I am just bopping in and around enjoying the fellowship and the discussions. Also, before the debate, I had promised to answer a few questions for someone I had met here (by private correspondence) and I want to make good on my promise. He has been waiting patiently for several weeks so I do want to get to that as well. I'll still be around though for I think Jerry would feel naked without the thorn in his side.

            Comment


            • And FYI, we will know more on my brother's prognosis on Tuesday I hope. Things have been going maddeningly slow.

              Comment


              • Dee Dee,

                For your information,the only thing you have thrashed is the Holy Scriptures.

                For example,the Lord Jesus Christ HIMSELF tells the parable of the "wheat and tares".In that parable He likens the FIELD to the WORLD.And He says:

                "The field is the world;the good seed are the children of the kingdom,but the tares are the children of the wicked one.

                "The enemy that soweth them is the devil;the harvest is the end of the age;and the reapersare the angels.

                "As,therefore,the tares are gathered and burned in the fire,so shall it be at the end of this age.

                "The Son of Man shall send forth His angels,and they shall gather out of His kingdom ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND,and them who do iniquity,

                "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire;thereshall be wailing and gnashing of teeth"(Mt.13:38-42).

                Now you must realize that these are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.He is teaching that at the end of the age that ALL THINGS THAT OFFEND will be taken out of the world.

                But you cannot believe Him,can you?And why is that?

                It is because His teaching goes against what you believe.According to your ideas,only the unrighteous Jews will be taken out of His kingdom.So instead of believing His plain words,you do not believe and therefore you can continue to cling to your false beliefs.

                The Lord´s teaching is clear that ALL the unrighteous will be thrust out of His kingdom:

                "I tell you,I know you not from where ye are;depart from Me,ALL YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

                "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth,when ye shall see Abraham,and Isaac,and Jacob,and all the prophets,in the kingdom of God,and you yourself thrust out"(Lk.13:27,28).

                Dee Dee,as you can see,this is not just about only the unrighteous Jews being cast out of the kingdom,but instead it is about ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

                Why can´t you believe His words,Dee Dee?

                Comment


                • And so that it does not get lost in the shuffle:

                  So I ask again abuot RC Sproul, D. James Kennedy, Kenneth Gentry, Gary DeMar, and Hank Hanegraaf?? Are you presuming that these men don't understand futurism?? And if they do, and have rejected it, are you questioning their salvation as well??

                  Comment


                  • Jerry, Jerry, quite contrary, how does your argument go??
                    By ignoring answers and repeating things,
                    And dodged questions all in a row.

                    See Rapt... I am waxing poetic today too.

                    Here is another one for you Jer... a text without a context is a pretext. So asked and answered many times over.

                    Comment


                    • If you really have so much time on your hands why don't you start answering the issues I outlined that you dodgedly avoided in Round 10? Post your answers in the Back Alley, and I will give you the further thrashing that you are begging for.

                      Comment


                      • Why won't Jerry answer already asked asked questions?

                        Why won't Sola?

                        Because they are the DUPLICATE DANCERS!



                        Revelation 22
                        14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                        15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

                        Comment


                        • Revelation717,

                          The verse from Ephesians says nothing about the Body of Christ being the bride of Christ.

                          First (the verse you left out) we read:

                          "For we are members of His Body,of His flesh and of His bones."

                          Then He demonstrates just how close that relationship is in the next verse:

                          "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother,and shall be joined into hiswife,and the two shall be one flesh."

                          Paul is using the words from Genesis2:24 to show that the believer is joined to Christ in the same way that a man is joined to hiswife.If he wasteaching that the Body is the Bride,he would say so.But nowhere does anyone ever say that the Body of Christ is the Bride of Christ.

                          And why can´t you deal with my words as they are stated?Instead of doiung that,you take my words and make them say something entirely different from what I said.And then you attack the new made up words.

                          I NEVER SAID THAT ISRAEL WOULD EVER ATTAIN THIS RIGHTEOUSNESS IN UNBELIEF!!!

                          Again,I will ask you to quote my words where I ever said such a thing.You think that you can make up anything that you want and attribute it to me,and that is exactly what you are doing.

                          I am through discussing anything with you.You cannot discuss these matters in an honest way,and I will not stoop to your level.

                          Comment


                          • LOLOL, that argument about the Body and the Bride is the same sort of thing we see from Unitarians... they go see, it says here that Jesus is a man, so he can't be Deity. Newsflash, the Body and the Bride are not mutually exclusive terms. The Church is BOTH!!! That is the point of thse verses. Denying that the Church is the Bride totally the destroys the full analogy presented.

                            Comment


                            • And don't forget 2 Corinthians 11:2 and Romans 7:4. Wait a minute, let me get my popcorn so I can be entertained on how Jerry worms his way out of those two.

                              Comment


                              • Dee Dee,

                                You want to discuss the issues you raised in your tenth post,and that is exactly what I am doing.Did you forget that the parable of the"wheat and tares" was a part of your discussion in that post?

                                What you mean is that you will discuss any issue BUT THAT ONE!

                                And I can understand why you do not care to get into that.

                                Comment

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