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  • The Greek language had terms to express concepts such as "could be close" "might be near" "any day now but not exactly sure when," and there were not used. They used terms that were not equivocal. Soon. Near. Shortly. At hand. This generation. What is so confusing about this? Why can't we take those didactic timing words literally?? Imminence is made up out of whole cloth.

    People today constantly say "Jesus is coming back soon," and they expect to be understood as saying exactly what they just said. They believe it is near in time.... not COULD be near in time. Why can't we give the Bible the same courtesy?? Was God such a bad communicator?? No, we are bad listeners.

    Comment


    • You know no shame.You false accuse another man of saying things that he never said.And then when you are caught,you refuse to repent and apologize.

      Again,I never said that "Jesus is not everlasting righteousness".

      That is a lie and you know it.You should be ashamed but instead you seem proud of the fact that you falsely accuse another man of making statements that he never said.
      Really?? Is that like changing the speaker of a Psalm and using it to claim a sister in Christ hates God becuase she has a different eschatology (that is universally accepted as orthodox) than you??

      Comment


      • Dee Dee,

        My words in reference to you were a response to your interpretation of the prophecy of Zechariah,who writes that the Lord Jesus Christ will fight against the nations that will come against Jerusalem and He will "desroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem"(Zech.12:9).

        You say that this verse refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70.You say that the Lord did not prevail,but instead He lost when He fought against Jerusalem!

        That is saying OUTRAGEOUS things about my Lord and Savior!That is TWISTING Scriptures until they are saying the COMPLETE OPPOSITE thing that they say.

        Zechariah says that when the Lord fights in that day He will prevail as He did "when He fought in the day of battle"--and in that day He was a VICTOR!

        You say just the opposite.You say that He lost!

        Do you have no shame?Is there not any Scripture that you will not pervert in order to defend the doctrines of man?

        All you prove is that you will not believe the word of God when it conficts with the silly teaching which you have learned from man.And you prove over and over that you will not believe the word of God when it conflicts with your silly theories.

        For instance,you say that the following verse has already happened:

        "Behold,He cometh with clouds,and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,and they also who pierced Him;and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him"(Rev.1:7).

        When did EVERY EYE see Him come in clouds,Mrs.Dee Dee?

        You will not hesitate to twist these plain words that were inspired by the Holy Spirit in order to defend your silly ideas.You only prove that you will not believe the word of God when it is in confict with the teaching that was invented by man.

        I believe that you are sincere in your beliefs,but that does not mean that you are correct.The Pharisees were also sincere at the time of the Lord,but they did not believe the word of God,just as you do not believe it.

        They followed the doctrines of men,and so do you.

        Anyone who would say that the prophecy showing the Lord fighting against the nations that come against Jerusalem is the same event as the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 only proves that they have no respect for Scripture.You have plenty of faith in the doctrines of men,but none for the Word of God.

        And since you are here,will you explain why the first century Christians did not receive their new,glorified bodies when the Lord came in the first century?

        Paul told them to be looking to the heavens for His appearing,and he also said that the time was at hand.Well,you say that He did come in the first century.

        In that case,the first century Christians should have received their new,glorified bodies.

        "For our citizenship is in heaven,from which also we look for the Savior,the Lord Jesus Christ,Who shall change our lowly body,that it may be fahioned like His glorious body...The Lord is at hand"(Phil.3:20,21;4:5).

        If the Lord did come in the first century,as you say,then according to Paul they should have recived their glorious bodies.John also said the same thing:

        "...but we know that when He shall appear we shall be like Him"(1Jn.3:2).

        You say that the Lord came in ther first century.If that is true,why didn´t the first century Christians receive their glorified bodies as Paul and John said they would?

        Tell us,Dee Dee,so we can all see how you will not hesitate to twist the words of Scripture in order to make them fit your little silly ideas.And do not run from these things I have brought up like you ran from the parable of the "wheat and tares".

        Tell us when EVERY EYE saw Him come in clouds,and tell us why the first century Christians did not receive their glorified bodies.

        Comment


        • Jerry I answered all of those issues in the Battle. I am sorry that you cannot comprehend or see that. And I already said that I am taking a break from substantive posting... what part of that comment is difficult for you to understand? But once I am done, I will see you in the Back Alley. You are again misrepresenting what I said in the Battle. Is it your position or your ego that is so weak that you have to continually misrepresent what I say?? When I dealt with your points, I did not misstate what they are because I have no fear of dealing with them honestly. I do not need to change them to make myself look better. Almost everything you just said, I already gave an answer to which you do not interact with but continually restate your orginal point (as I said before, you never move beyond level one interactions).


          I see you continue to defend your twisting of the Psalm 56 to say that I hate God. It doesn't matter what particular point I made that you were refering to, are you standing by your slander that I hate God?? Also, that Psalm both started and ended your post in round 6, it was not limited to one point that I made.

          I believe that you are sincere in your beliefs,but that does not mean that you are correct.The Pharisees were also sincere at the time of the Lord,but they did not believe the word of God,just as you do not believe it.
          Are you calling me an unbeliever Jerry?? That is what you are insinuating here. Believers don't hate God.

          Anyone who would say that the prophecy showing the Lord fighting against the nations that come against Jerusalem is the same event as the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 only proves that they have no respect for Scripture.You have plenty of faith in the doctrines of men,but none for the Word of God.
          Why must you continually misrepresent what I said? That is not what I said and you most certainly know that. Why can't you debate honestly rather than setting up continual straw men?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren
            Good, you're making progress. Can we have that title officially under our names?
            Well I am afraid its nothing to brag about.
            Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
            TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

            Comment


            • Well I am afraid its nothing to brag about.
              What.... the fact that you are making progress???

              What about the rest of what I had to say??

              Comment


              • Dee Dee,

                Why do you even bother to come on this thread if you are taking a break from substanstive posting?

                I know why you are taking a break.You cannot answer the points I raised.

                O yes,you answered the parable of the "wheat and tares" by saying that the judgment is only for the unbelieving Jews.But by saying that,you are saying that the Lord Jesus is wrong,because He says that it is all the "unrighteous" who are gathered out of His kingdom.

                But again you only prove that you have no respect for the words of the Lord Jesus Himself.

                And you accuse me of misrepresenting what you said about the prophecies of Zechariah.Let me remind you that you did say that Zechariah 12:9 referred to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70.Here are the words of Zechariah:

                "And it shall come to pass,in that day,that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem"(Zech.12:9).

                You said,"Again,if Jerry knew his ancient history well he would be aware that the Romans never prospered as they once did after AD70 and the Emire´s decline can well be placed as beginning at that very point."

                You are saying that the defeat of Rome came when Jerusalem was defeated in Ad70 and in that way Rome was destroyed.Pitiful,Dee Dee.

                If you are now denying what you said before,tell us when the Lord was the VICTOR when He defended Jerusalem.We see that the Lord will "fight against those nations,as when He fought in the day of battle"(Zech.14:3).

                Since your theology has no place in the future when this can happen,and it did not happen in the past,you must FLAT OUT DENY that it will ever happen.You would rather believe the false theology that you have received from man and deny the plain truth that in the future the Lord Jesus will indeed fight against all the nations that will come against Jerusalem and defeat them.

                PITIFUL!

                We can see from Scripture that it is the sinner who BELIEVES GOD that are justified in the sight of the Lord:

                "Abraham BELIEVED GOD,and it was counted to him for righteousness"(Ro.4:3).

                You prove that you will believe ANYTHING that man teaches,and if the teaching of man conflicts with the word of God,you will believe the teaching of man every time.

                Comment


                • Dear Jerry:

                  I will see you at the Back Alley when I am good and ready.

                  Why do you even bother to come on this thread if you are taking a break from substanstive posting?

                  I know why you are taking a break.You cannot answer the points I raised.
                  No, Jerry like I said on another thread, it is more because

                  1. I have had enough of you after dealing with you for two weeks

                  2. I am dealing with the fact that my brother was just diagnosed with cancer and I am worried about his prognosis

                  3. I am the board of directors of a large parachurch ministry that has a large event coming up that I must concentrate on

                  4. My husband is starting a Bible study for our community and needs my assistance

                  Sorry, Jerry, your points and misreprsentations do not rule my world.

                  Comment


                  • Jerry, you neglected these questions:

                    It doesn't matter what particular point I made that you were refering to, are you standing by your slander that I hate God??

                    and

                    Are you calling me an unbeliever Jerry?? That is what you are insinuating here. Believers don't hate God.

                    Please answer those questions Jerry. And don't you fret. I find your aggression amusing. I look forward to thrashing you further. It will be my pleasure.

                    Comment


                    • You give me no evidence that you believe God,Dee Dee.Especially since you refuse to post any substanstive posts.As I said,every time you must choose between the teaching of man and the word of God,you choose the teaching of man.

                      I sincerely hope that you are saved,Dee Dee.But I see no evidence that you are.Prove me wrong.Show me that you believe the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ as He spoke in the parable of the "wheat and tares".

                      In that day when the Lord will judge the world there will be many who will say that in His name they did many wonderful works,but the Lord will say,"I never knew you"(Mt.7:23).

                      So again,I sincerely hope that you are saved.But if you are saved,I cannot understand why you continue to deny His plain words.Show me that I am wrong.Show me that you believe the Lord´s plain words.And you can start by demonstrating that you are not denying thewords of the Lord in the parable of the "wheat and the tares".

                      In His grace,--Jerry

                      Comment


                      • Revelation717,

                        This is what you said I said:

                        "Jesus is not everlasting righteousness."

                        That is a big fat lie and you know it.

                        I never said that!Instead,I said that everlasting righteousness has not come unto Jerusalem.

                        And the Bride is not the church,so I never said that the Bride is unfaithful.The church is His Body,not the Bride.Can´t you tell the difference between the Body of Christ and the Bride?

                        And you say that the following verse has been fulfilled:

                        "Behold,He cometh with clouds,and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,and they also who pierced Him;and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him"(Rev.1:7).

                        When did every eye see Him coming in clouds?

                        I have asked you that question twice before,but you keep evading it.When did all the kindreds of the earth wail because of Him.

                        If this verse has already been fulfilled,then you should be able to tell me when it happened.

                        You know no shame.You false accuse another man of saying things that he never said.And then when you are caught,you refuse to repent and apologize.

                        Again,I never said that "Jesus is not everlasting righteousness".

                        That is a lie and you know it.You should be ashamed but instead you seem proud of the fact that you falsely accuse another man of making statements that he never said.


                        This is what you said I said:

                        "Jesus is not everlasting righteousness."

                        That is a big fat lie and you know it.

                        I never said that!Instead,I said that everlasting righteousness has not come unto Jerusalem.


                        Then who is Jesus? Everlasting righteousness or not?

                        Fact is everlasting righteousness came to Jerusalem, was crucified in Jerusalem, raised from the dead in Jerusalem and believed on by many in Jerusalem. What's yer point, hombre?

                        And the Bride is not the church,so I never said that the Bride is unfaithful.The church is His Body,not the Bride.Can´t you tell the difference between the Body of Christ and the Bride?

                        Eph:5:21: Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
                        Eph:5:22: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
                        Eph:5:23: For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
                        Eph:5:24: Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
                        Eph:5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
                        Eph:5:26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
                        Eph:5:27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

                        Eph:5:28: So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
                        Eph:5:29: For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

                        Eph:5:30: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
                        Eph:5:31: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
                        Eph:5:32: This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

                        Eph:5:33: Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

                        Obviously to some it is still a mystery, one that they will never solve.


                        And you say that the following verse has been fulfilled:

                        "Behold,He cometh with clouds,and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,and they also who pierced Him;and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him"(Rev.1:7).

                        When did every eye see Him coming in clouds?

                        I have asked you that question twice before,but you keep evading it.


                        I never said that verse was fulfilled, even if it has been, I never said it. I said Zechariah 12:10 is the verse that John 19:37 speaks of and says it is fulfilled, can't you read?

                        Besides Jerry can you even see how you bear false witness and contradict yourself by saying I said it was fulfilled then state I have never answered the question.

                        Quid pro quo Jerry, QUOTE it or APOLOGIZE for bearing false witness

                        You know no shame.You false accuse another man of saying things that he never said.And then when you are caught,you refuse to repent and apologize.

                        Ain't no shame in exposing darkness and hating every evil way.

                        You did say those things, I quoted you and you are still saying those things. Seems like it is you who will not repent.

                        Now you even go so far as to lie about Dee Dee, Jack S, and myself, and if there are others (i.e.Thayer) which I have no doubt you still refuse to humble yourself with apology, let alone ask for forgiveness.

                        Again,I never said that "Jesus is not everlasting righteousness".

                        That is a lie and you know it.You should be ashamed but instead you seem proud of the fact that you falsely accuse another man of making statements that he never said


                        Like I said Jerry, who is Jesus and did He not go to Jerusalem?

                        Nuff said.
                        Last edited by Revelation717; September 18th, 2002, 11:07 AM.
                        Oh man, would ya look at this...we got alot of work to do!

                        Comment


                        • Dear Jerry:

                          I pity you. I have nothing to prove to you, but at least it is out in the open. You elevate eschatology to a salvation issue.

                          So... Jerry... are you aware that RC Sproul is a preterist and would agree with most of what I have said to you. (doctrinally), do you question his salvation??

                          What about D. James Kennedy, I have heard that he embraces preterism (if I am wrong, somebody please show me where I can correct that impression), are you questioning his salvation??

                          What about Kenneth Gentry?? Gary DeMar?? All those preterists, are you questioning their salvation??

                          Hank Hanegraaf?? What about him?? He has not openly embraced preterism but has given some very strong indications (as even Tommy Ice has noted) that he will?? What about his salvation??

                          Comment


                          • So Knight... what do you think about that?? Do you agree that because one holds to an orthodox preterist interpretation of the Bible that calls one's salvation into question??

                            Comment


                            • And Jerry, I am not calling your salvation into question, but you need to do a real heart check. I just told you that my brother has cancer. No matter what you have said to me or any tiffs we have had, my immediate response if you said something like that would be (before I proceeded to thrash you doctrinally) would be something along the lines of.... "Jerry, I am so sorry to hear that... I will pray for you." What did I get from you (on the 70 weeks thread)??? .... something along the lines of.... Well then Dee Dee, why don't you just go and take your break some place else then?

                              And Jerry, let's just go under your assumption that I am a pagan.... is THIS the way you "witness"???

                              Ewww. I wouldn't be that cold to Evangelion.

                              Comment


                              • Dee Dee,

                                You asked me whether or not I believe you are saved.

                                I answered you honestly.What did you want me to do,lie?

                                And I do not elevate eschatology to a salvation issue.I told you beforte that I judge whether or not one is saved based on whether or not one believes God.

                                If you were not prepared for my answer,then you should have not asked me the question.

                                And no,this is not the way I witness to the truth of God.However,you are a special case because you are on a public forum and your teaching can lead others astray.Therefore,I am treating you diffently than I would someone who has never heard the gospel.

                                And Dee Dee,I am sorry that your brother has cancer.But we all have problems,and many of us have problems much worse than yours.However,it is in the periods of time that we are going through serious problems that we grow the most.

                                And I am not condemning all those who hold your views as unsaved.However,I would question the salvation of anyone who would continue to hold those views after having been shown the truth and continue to insist that they are not in error.

                                You asked me for my opinion and I told you.

                                It seems to me that NOW all anyone is interested in is attempting to somehow denegrate the other person,instead of discussing the issues in a reasonable manner.Why would you even botherr to come on these forums if you are taking a rest from substantive issues?

                                Comment

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