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  • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
    I can’t tell if you are trying to be a little smart or still can’t get what I’m saying.

    All that exists has always been, nothing has ever been started in the absolute. If things appear to have been STARTED, then that which started it formed it from itself. Many things can be a beginning of a rearrangement of what does already exist. Explosions are the most predominant, but that doesn’t end anything, only changes it.

    You said, “I exist, therefore I had no beginning”. NO! I am made up of the same stuff that has always existed. I said that stuff changes but never starts or ends. How can something end without changing? If it changes it has started again in a different way, but is still there. According to scientific law, nothing can be created nor destroyed, only changed. It has all always been here and will always be here, according to physical law; not spiritual law.
    Peace.

    Paul – 101309
    I said something similar in post 145...

    Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
    I cannot answer for Letsargue but, yes, everything that exists has always existed and will always exist given that matter and energy are interchangable and the hypothesis, yet to be falsified, that matter can neither be created or destroyed.
    We seem to agree... except for that god nonsense...
    "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
      I did away with the Big Bang long ago. It never made any sense. neither does the Black Hole nonsense.

      Paul -- 101309
      All theories are, er, theories until they become falsified. The so-called "big bang" theory is being falsified by the so-called "M" theory of strings (Google it).

      As for black holes... they exist... live with it.
      "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
        Quotes from the Bible are not proof of the existence of the Christian god.
        Are your quotes on this forum proof of your non-existence?

        As a responsible Creator, God has communicated through creation, His Word/Bible, Christ, His people, etc.

        "He is there and He is not silent." -Francis Schaeffer

        Revelation>Reason

        Are you omniscient? If so, you are a god. If not, you cannot be an absolute atheist (there may be truths beyond your sphere of knowledge).
        Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

        They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
        I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

        Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

        "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

        The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
          Are your quotes on this forum proof of your non-existence?
          Red herring.

          Originally posted by godrulz View Post
          As a responsible Creator, God has communicated through creation, His Word/Bible, Christ, His people, etc.
          Please prove the Bible is the Christian god's "word."

          A "responsible" creator would leave no room for doubt of his existence.

          Originally posted by godrulz View Post
          "He is there and He is not silent." -Francis Schaeffer
          Is this what you are trying to pass off as "proof" of the Christian god?

          Originally posted by godrulz View Post
          Revelation>Reason


          Originally posted by godrulz View Post
          Are you omniscient? If so, you are a god. If not, you cannot be an absolute atheist (there may be truths beyond your sphere of knowledge).
          Red herrings seem to be what you're best at.
          "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

          Comment


          • Hello anyone,
            The reason to believe that there is an eternal God is this:
            First grasp and accept the concept that there is something called infinity and eternity ...

            then realize that because their is LIFE then there had to be a source for LIFE...

            then realize that there is something called wisdom/knowledge/intellect/and creativeness and there had to have been an original sources in order for it to develop...

            For there to BE LIFE and intellect ... there had to have been an original source... an omni-present LIFE and intellect eternally existing within infinity.

            Because LIFE does co-exist with intellect leads one to accept the concept of a creator - which Christians call the LIVING creative GOD.

            Now, accepting Jesus as the Messiah is a whole new topic.
            Last edited by Ps82; October 14, 2009, 04:53 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
              You said, “I exist, therefore I had no beginning”. NO! I am made up of the same stuff that has always existed.
              Though I disagree with your theory about things always existing, holding that God created everything that exists out of His Word, with no other ingredients; I also have to add that when one is born again, we become a new creation, one that never existed before. We become a whole new creature.
              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
                I did away with the Big Bang long ago. It never made any sense. neither does the Black Hole nonsense.

                Paul -- 101309
                some of scientists didn't get your memo
                a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

                Comment


                • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                  some of scientists didn't get your memo
                  I know I didn't. I'm looking into that, right now.
                  "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                  If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                    Though I disagree with your theory about things always existing, holding that God created everything that exists out of His Word, with no other ingredients; I also have to add that when one is born again, we become a new creation, one that never existed before. We become a whole new creature.
                    True or False:

                    "Everything that is had a beginning."
                    "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                      some of scientists didn't get your memo

                      Yes they did.

                      I sent 72 manuscripts to 72 of the top places, such as M.I.T. and others. It was like giving the world the Gospel. Guess what.

                      I did get a summons from the Governor of Ohio, but that fell through, because Reagon was being chosen.
                      Peace.

                      Paul -- 101409
                      ---Gal. 4:16.
                      ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Silent Hunter View Post
                        True or False:

                        "Everything that is had a beginning."


                        It really depends on which set of God’s laws you’re referring to. God created all the laws of science, and all the Laws of the Spiritual.
                        According to God’s carnal Laws of science, you have all that pertain to it, and it appears that all things have always been by those carnal laws.
                        According to God’s Spiritual Laws, God created all things in the beginning.
                        Peace.

                        Paul – 101409
                        ---Gal. 4:16.
                        ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          Though I disagree with your theory about things always existing, holding that God created everything that exists out of His Word, with no other ingredients; I also have to add that when one is born again, we become a new creation, one that never existed before. We become a whole new creature.
                          Hi Aimiel,
                          Your statement above interested me, but I do have a twist to add to your comments.

                          I one of those who does believe that God has existed eternally... but not necessarily created things. God did not create things out of something some people call - NOTHING. Some sort of pile of NOTHING or some sort of totally void place called NOTHINGNESS did not somehow co-exist with God.

                          The very fact that God is considered to be infinite and omni-present rules out that NOTHING can co-exist with HIM.

                          God did speak his WORD to bring things into being ... but these things were established from the essence of God himself. By sharing his nature; establishing rules of behavior within HIMSELF for the functioning of created things; and by setting boundaries (forming realms) where things can exist, then God brought things into being.

                          God has existed eternally, but the created things have not.

                          So I agree with what you said here:
                          God created everything that exists out of His Word, with no other ingredients
                          Yet, I would say it this way:
                          God created everything that exists BY HIS WORD. There were no other ingredients other than God's own nature, for BY HIM and FOR HIM, all things were created (Colossians 1:1 and BY HIM all things CONSIST. (Colossians 1:17)

                          Once again HIS nature is infinitely eternal - not us.

                          You said:
                          I also have to add that when one is born again, we become a new creation, one that never existed before. We become a whole new creature.
                          I so agree with what you wrote ...
                          Also, consider that God lost nothing of his nature to create us or looses anything in order to re-create us.

                          Our eternal life ... is futuristic ... for we had a beginning point, but will continue forever forward ... but God is eternal in all manners / past present and future.

                          Comment


                          • Hunter: It is not a red herring to say that you are not an omniscient god, so cannot be a dogmatic atheist. You seem to think you have proof that God does not exist, but this is impossible in your worldview.
                            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
                              It really depends on which set of God’s laws you’re referring to. God created all the laws of science, and all the Laws of the Spiritual.
                              According to God’s carnal Laws of science, you have all that pertain to it, and it appears that all things have always been by those carnal laws.
                              According to God’s Spiritual Laws, God created all things in the beginning.
                              Peace.

                              Paul – 101409
                              What rule says they have to be "god's laws."
                              "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                                Hunter: It is not a red herring to say that you are not an omniscient god, so cannot be a dogmatic atheist.
                                Out of context, no, it isn't a red herring to make such a statement. However, in context, it IS a red herring because your statement has nothing to do with the topic except to attempt to take the discussion in a direction you think you can prevail. To refresh your ever-so-tenuous memory;

                                "A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic."

                                Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                                You seem to think you have proof that God does not exist, but this is impossible in your worldview.
                                Again, you're trying to change the subject. You see, I have no "world view" (whatever that may encompass).

                                As for proof the Christian god doesn't exist, well, that is demonstrated by the total lack of evidence that he/she/it does exist. Recall, I am not obligated to prove a negative. If your god exists provide the evidence.
                                Last edited by Silent Hunter; October 15, 2009, 01:43 PM.
                                "The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."

                                Comment

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