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THE SIN THAT LEADS TO DEATH ?

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  • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    So, how does God determine who He regenerates, and who He leaves alone?
    While the Bible does not say by what criteria God determined which individuals to create as elect vessels of His mercy and which individuals to create as nonelect vessels of His wrath (Romans 9:21-23), God's criteria were not based on any differences between individual people (Romans 3:9-12); just as, for example, King David's criteria for determining which Moabites to kill and which to keep alive were not based on any differences between the individual people (2 Samuel 8:2); and just as a potter's criteria for determining which part of a lump of clay to make a vessel unto honor and which part of that same lump of clay to make another vessel unto dishonor are not based on any differences between the two parts of that same lump of clay (Romans 9:21).

    Also, every Christian can know that he or she is elect (chosen) because Christian faith comes only to elect individuals (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2). Nonelect individuals can never believe in Jesus Christ, even when they are shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42), not because they are any worse than elect individuals (Romans 3:9-12), but simply because God did not choose to show them His mercy (Romans 9:15-22). Elect individuals are shown God's mercy and grace not based on any prior good works on their part (Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8-9), but because God chose (elected) them before they had done anything at all (Romans 9:11-24), and even before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13).

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    • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Why only save some?
      So that God can eternally show His wrath and power (Romans 9:22).

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      • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
        It sounds like you believe that we can pray for believers and non-believers both.
        Yes.

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        • Originally posted by Nang View Post
          And I am claiming that no fallen sinner WANTS to repent or be forgiven. It is not in any of us.

          God must FIRST regenerate and change our hearts and wills through the gifts of faith and repentance to realize our justification in His sight.

          God is the cause. Our faith and repentance is the effect.

          Never vice-versa.

          Sinners are never the cause of being forgiven. All mercy, grace, and legal pardon resides with the Judge Eternal.
          Except that it is the sinner who repents and is forgiven.

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          • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
            Read 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:8-9
            Okay. Done.

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            • Originally posted by bibleverse2 View Post
              Amen (Romans 7:12). But note that we are no longer under its letter (Romans 7:6), but under the grace of Jesus Christ (John 1:17), who showed mercy to someone who justly deserved death (John 8:4-11).
              Jesus was the only one left.

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              • Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
                Yes.
                How can we pray for anyone at all, except the believer's forgiveness and healing?

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                • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                  How can we pray for anyone at all, except the believer's forgiveness and healing?
                  For non-believers? Pray that they seek Christ.
                  That's the first step to salvation for a non-believer, right?

                  So many non-believers had found Jesus Christ! How did that happen?

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                  • Originally posted by betsy123 View Post
                    For non-believers? Pray that they seek Christ.
                    That's the first step to salvation for a non-believer, right?

                    So many non-believers had found Jesus Christ! How did that happen?
                    If it was people praying for them, good. I am asking about Biblical instruction, if it is there to do so.

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                    • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                      Except that it is the sinner who repents and is forgiven.
                      God is the causal agent in the act of repentance, as much as He is the sole source and giver of faith.

                      All of salvation comes from Him, including forgiveness (Justification).

                      Believers are the objects of salvation; never the instigators. Lest we should boast . . .
                      "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

                      " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
                      Gordon H. Clark

                      "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
                      Charles Spurgeon

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                      • Originally posted by Nang View Post
                        God is the causal agent in the act of repentance, as much as He is the sole source and giver of faith.

                        All of salvation comes from Him, including forgiveness (Justification).

                        Believers are the objects of salvation; never the instigators. Lest we should boast . . .
                        I understand all that, but in God's grace it is not God repenting it is the sinner.

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                        • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                          I understand all that, but in God's grace it is not God repenting it is the sinner.
                          Agreed, but the question is: Who gets the glory?

                          (There are some who make careers out of frequent repenting and then boast about their works of righteousness.)
                          "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

                          " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
                          Gordon H. Clark

                          "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
                          Charles Spurgeon

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                            If it was people praying for them, good. I am asking about Biblical instruction, if it is there to do so.

                            https://www.openbible.info/topics/praying_for_the_lost

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                            • Originally posted by Nang View Post
                              Agreed, but the question is: Who gets the glory?

                              (There are some who make careers out of frequent repenting and then boast about their works of righteousness.)
                              I should not boast in repenting, but it is better to repent of sin than not to. Yes, God gets the glory.

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                              • I can pray for unbelievers now, thank you.

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