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  • Originally posted by Cntrysner View Post
    [MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION] believes he must endure to the end.
    Please cease from saying things about me which are not true. Let us look at the following words of the Lord Jesus:

    "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
    (Jn.6:37).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      My views on the Hebrew epistles match those of the giants of Mid Acts Dispensationalism, Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam. Your views match those taught by the Acts 28 crowd.
      I don't really care who agrees with you or what you think of what I think.

      Your fallacious use of "experts" is very similar to evolutionists. Why don't you just tell me that the majority of Christians agree with you so that I can laugh even harder.

      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      Why do you continue to ignore what Paul said in Romans 11 about Israel here?:

      "For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?"
      (Ro.11:15).
      Why do you continue to lie about what I say? I do not ignore that at all.

      I guess that you think that Paul is confused when he writes that Israel is both NOT cast away (Rom 11:2) and that they are cast away (Rom 11:15). Was Paul schizophrenic?

      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      You are the one confused and that is why you just refuse to address the fact that those who received the book of Hebrews were told the following:
      "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).
      The heavenly Jerusalem comes down to the earth in the future, so what is the actual problem?

      You do understand that the kingdom of heaven will be on the earth, right?

      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      They are told that they have already come the new Jerusalem, the city of the living God who is in the eternal state and not on the earth. And only those in the Body of Christ are risen with Christ and now sit in heavenly places:
      "Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).

      You can't even tell the difference between theearth and the third heaven where the LORD God dwells!
      Bible blender, you are. You've never continued on to the book of Revelation?
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        Please cease from saying things about me which are not true.
        Perhaps you could give the rest of us that courtesy from you.
        All of my ancestors are human.
        Originally posted by Squeaky
        That explains why your an idiot.
        Originally posted by God's Truth
        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          The heavenly Jerusalem comes down to the earth in the future, so what is the actual problem?

          You do understand that the kingdom of heaven will be on the earth, right?
          Yes, the kingdom of heaven will be on the earth and it will be the Lord Jesus as Man who will rule in that kingdom (Acts 2:30).

          However, the following prophecy was being fulfilled in the first century and it speaks of the Jewish believer being raised to the location of both the Father and the Son after the Son had ascended into heaven:

          "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"
          (Heb.12:22-24).

          You false teaching demand that this prophecy will be fulfilled in the future despite the fact that the author of the book of Hebrews wrote--"ye are come...to Jesus." He did not write--"ye will come...to Jesus."

          You can't tell the difference between things which have already happened and things which remain in the future. You can't understand simple English.

          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          I guess that you think that Paul is confused when he writes that Israel is both NOT cast away (Rom 11:2) and that they are cast away (Rom 11:15). Was Paul schizophrenic?
          Of course you do not possess the common sense to allow you to understand that being "cast away" is not the same thing as being "cast aside." Let's look at the following translation from the KJV which speaks of Israel:

          "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?" (Ro.11:15; KJV).

          This translation of Paul's words here directly contradicts what Paul said earlier, that the Lord "has not cast away" national Israel. A better translation is this one:.

          "For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?"
          (Ro.11:15; WNT).

          The words "cast aside" here are translated from the Greek word apobole, and a form of that word (apoballo) is translated "throwing...aside" in the following verse:
          "Throwing his cloak aside, he jumped to his feet and came to Jesus" (Mk.10:50).

          A blind man named Bartimaeus was sitting and begging in Jericho when the Lord Jesus entered that city. Bartimaeus cried out, saying, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" (v.48). The crowd told him to stand up because Jesus was calling him. This motivated him to "throw aside" his outer cloak which was spread out before him to collect alms and to rise and to come to the Lord.

          Bartimaeus did not "cast away" his garment, but instead he cast it aside in order to facilitate his movement of rising. And the same is true in regard to national Israel. That nation was the LORD's agent to bring the truth of God to the Gentiles but when she denied the Lord Jesus is her promised Messiah the LORD temporarily cast aside her as His agent and He named Paul as the Apostle of the Gentiles (Ro.11:13).

          All of this is WAY, WAY, WAY above your head because you cannot even understand what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law in the following verses:

          "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life"
          (Jn.6:47).
          "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

          "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life"
          (Jn.5:24).

          "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day"
          (Jn.6:41).
          "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25-26).

          He told a Jewish woman that her faith saved her:
          "And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

          According to the Savior Himself the Jews who lived under the law who believed possessed eternal life and were therefore saved. But you and the others in the Neo-MAD camp say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

          You just refuse to believe the plain teaching of the Lord Jesus because it doesn't match your false theology.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
            The verse does not say that. I answered one of the verses which you think denies OSAS so now it is your turn to answer the following words of the Lord Jesus which supports OSAS:
            "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).
            Whoever believes, whoever believes what? Whoever believes that we have to not just believe and obey God the Father, but whoever believes we have to also believe and obey Jesus.

            Nowhere anywhere are we told just to believe we have to believe.
            Oh how I love the Word of God!

            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
              Which is your very best verse or passage that you can quote which you think proves that a person can perish after they believe? I will address that verse and I won't be forced to change the meaning of any words like you have to do in regard to the word "believe."

              James 1:16 Don't be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters.

              James 1:22 Be doers of the word, and not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves.

              Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

              1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
              Oh how I love the Word of God!

              Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

              Comment


              • Imagine for a moment to be in the times of Jesus walking the earth and hearing Jesus preach for the 3 1/2 years.

                Jesus says we now have to go through him to get to God the Father.

                Just imagine that for a minute.

                People know that they have to believe and obey God the Father, but now a man comes along and says now you have to obey me. Jesus says if you believe that then you will be saved.

                Jesus taught the New Covenant, the Last Testament, he is the good news and the only way that saves.

                Jesus did not later send Paul to preach another gospel that saves.

                Paul was just the sinful tough guy chosen to go preach what Jesus preached.

                Paul didn't come to preach that obeying Jesus is about not obeying Jesus.
                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                  Nowhere anywhere are we told just to believe we have to believe.

                  Romans 4:5 “However, to the one who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.”
                  "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



                  Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


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                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Poly View Post
                    Romans 4:5 “However, to the one who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.”
                    The 'does not work but believes' is about the purification works.

                    Paul was a Pharisee who used to enforce the purification works of the law, but now he tells the people that those works no longer save.

                    Paul is not saying we are saved by believing and not obeying.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                    Comment


                    • We have to believe that Jesus' shed blood on the cross is the righteous works that justifies and cleans us, it is what purifies us now.

                      It means we no longer have to get circumcised in the flesh and sacrifice animals, etc. It does not mean we no longer have to repent of our sins.
                      Oh how I love the Word of God!

                      Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                        Paul is not saying we are saved by believing and not obeying.
                        I don't know what part of "does not work" you don't understand.

                        Acts 15:24 “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

                        Why do you try and subvert the souls of men, God's Truth?

                        Obviously Paul would lump you in with the foolish Galatians.

                        Galatians 3:1-3 “You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?”

                        Are you so foolish, God's Truth, to now think you can finish by means of the flesh?
                        "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



                        Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


                        Upgrade your TOL membership.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Poly View Post
                          I don't know what part of "does not work" you don't understand.

                          Acts 15:24 “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment.

                          Why do you try and subvert men's souls, God's Truth?

                          Obviously Paul would lump you in with the foolish Galatians.

                          Galatians 3:1-3 “You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?”

                          Are you so foolish, God's Truth, to now think you can finish by means of the flesh?
                          Paul said that to Galatians who were talked into getting circumcised in the flesh and observing special days---those are the purification/ceremonial works the people used to have to do.
                          Oh how I love the Word of God!

                          Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                          Comment


                          • Imagine now that you are in the New Testament times...the Jews used to have to do works to clean themselves, just to be able to go to the temple where God's Spirit was.

                            The Gentiles who did not do the works of the law called the purification works, they were called 'unclean' people, and they were separate from God because they did not do those works.

                            Now comes along the disciples of Christ who tell EVERYONE that no one has to get circumcised anymore, or offer animals because Jesus is the last sacrifice and how the Holy Spirit circumcises our hearts and circumcision of the flesh is now worthless.

                            Those are the works that no longer clean and save.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                              Paul said that to Galatians who were talked into getting circumcised in the flesh and observing special days---those are the purification/ceremonial works the people used to have to do.
                              Who are you to take it upon yourself to interpret Paul's mentioning of not keeping the law to actually mean do not keep only a few of the laws? And then also decide just which ones he says to keep?
                              "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



                              Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


                              Upgrade your TOL membership.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Poly View Post
                                Who are you to take it upon yourself to interpret Paul's mentioning of not keeping the law to actually mean do not keep only a few of the laws? And then also decide just which ones he says to keep?
                                Jesus and Paul tell us plainly. Just look at the Galatians who Paul called 'foolish'.

                                Notice that Paul did not say, "You foolish Galatians, why do you think repenting of sins and obeying Jesus did anything?"

                                Paul would not ever speak against repenting of sins and obeying Jesus.

                                Paul was explaining that by faith in Jesus' blood we are made clean and we are not made clean anymore by getting circumcised in the flesh and offering animals.
                                Oh how I love the Word of God!

                                Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                                Comment

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