ECT The Remnant and MAD

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The MADs on this forum run and hide when the subject of the remnant is raised:

"Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace"
(Ro.11:2-5).​

In the following passage Paul speaks of two groups who were reconciled unto God in one Body:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
(Eph.2:3-6).​

I say that the two groups Paul mentioned in this passage is the believing remnant of Romans 11:5 and the believing Gentiles.

Is there a MAD who will actually tell us the identity of the two groups?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The MADs on this forum run and hide when the subject of the remnant is raised:

Could it be that we "run and hide," because:

1.You employ that "baiting" cliche on every other post?

2.
I say that the two groups Paul mentioned in this passage is the believing remnant of Romans 11:5 and the believing Gentiles.Is there a MAD who will actually tell us the identity of the two groups?

-you are really not interested in what we say, but just want to pound the podium, assert, declare "victory," and return to "I am right, and am not really here to engage anyone, learn from others, but prove how right I am, as an A2Blender, and show those MAD wackos a thin, or two, Lucy" echo chamber?


Rhetorical questions.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Could it be that we "run and hide," because:

Because you have no intelligent answer which would leave your misguided teaching about the remnant intact!

You only prove that you place more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

For instance, the man-made teaching you follow says that those who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works so you when you read that "whosoever" believes in the Lord Jesus has everlasting life and will not perish you run and hide from those words:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (jn.3:16).​

You have already proved that you are unable see the truth but I want to warn others about your false teaching in case they actually believe your nonsense.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Because you have no intelligent answer which would leave your misguided teaching about the remnant intact!

Oh.
You only prove that you place more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.
=word-for-word spam, which you post on every thread, right after you quote Pentecost, O'Hair,"the Greek," Professor Nicodemus................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................(ran out of room; besides, it is against TOL rules, to post a 5 page reply)


For instance, the man-made teaching...

-That "man made" "original" cliche is a real debate ender. We never heard that clincher before! Teach us. Please?

-You have the "God made" teaching, do you, sport? Aren't all false teachings, "man made?" Next up from Jer: Wet water...the truth, is the truth.................



You have already proved that you are unable see the truth but I want to warn others about your false teaching in case they actually believe your nonsense.

=ding, ding, ding!!!!! Word-for-word "closer," Jer has employed 56 times, in 2019!!!!


He is grinding his teet, as he reads this.


This "thread:"

empty-football-stadium-18476095.jpg
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Too bad that you can't distinguish "nonsense" from the truth!

Perhaps you can find of the your teachers who you follow and can quote him saying that the word "whosoever" in the following verse excludes the Jewish believers who lived under the law:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

john w, it is nonsense that the word "whosoever" means everyone but the Jewish believers who lived under the law but you still worship those who taught you that nonsense. I have a bridge in Brooklyn that you might be interested in buying.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I need to write that one down-where is my "To Do" list?

While you are at it you might ask those you follow who teach the nonsense which you believe who makes up the two groups mention in the following passage written by Paul:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:3-6).​

What I like about you is despite the fact that you know you are ignorant you are proud of it! Keep your chin up and your ears open to any nonsense your teachers tell you and you are on your way!

There will be no holding you back!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I only encourage others to engage bible believers...

If you were a Bible believer you would believe that in the following passage the two groups of which he speaks is the believing remnant of Romans 11:5 and the believing Gentiles:

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
(Eph.2:3-6).​

Since your teacher who fills your head with nonsense told you that those two groups cannot be the believing remnant and the believing Gentiles you believed it. And now you don't even know the identity of those two groups, proving the old saying that "ignorance is bliss!
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
If you were a Bible believer you would believe ...!

Translated: If you were a bible believer, you would believe jer's/my interpretation of (fill in the blank,) or believe my "corrected" verse(s), so that the bible agrees with my "doctrine," as that is why I, Jer, start threads, to "prove" that I am right, and everyone else is wrong,especially those ignorant MAD wacko's, and so I can end the debate, with my old reliable," Don't you believe the bible?" stumper,as I wonder why most ignore my "threads."


This "thread:"

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northwye

New member
Dispensationalism appears to focus upon the multitude rather than a remnant. If dispensationalism accepts Romans 11: 1-5 as being a remnant of Old Covenant Israel who were born again in Christ and became new creatures or creations, then dispensationalism would claim that there can be no Gentile remnant, using its extreme division between saved Gentile and saved Jew, which the quote above from Ephesians 2: 11-17 shows does not agree with New Testament scripture, Believing Gentiles become part of Israel, but this is not Old Covenant Israel of the flesh, and Paul is calling it the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 15-16.

Revelation 12: 17 says "And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

But this is a remnant in the Church Age. Would dispensationalism then insist that the remnant in Revelation 12: 17 is made up of all Jews? In order to maintain the position that there is no remnant of the Gentiles in the Church Age, but only the Multitude. Remember than the existence of a remnant implies there is a multitude which has gone off into false doctrines. That multitude could not in any possible way be due to dispensationalism and its disagreement with New Testament scriptures?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Dispensationalism appears to focus upon the multitude rather than a remnant. If dispensationalism accepts Romans 11: 1-5 as being a remnant of Old Covenant Israel who were born again in Christ and became new creatures or creations, then dispensationalism would claim that there can be no Gentile remnant...

More than 99% of dispensationalists affirm that the remnant of Romans 5:11 became members of the Body of Christ, including those who were the original MADs.

The other 1% are those who falsely teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the clear words here to the contrary:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

I call these people the Neo-MADs and they refuse to actually defend their perverted teaching and they wonder why other dispensationalists don't take them seriously.
 

northwye

New member
"If dispensationalism accepts Romans 11: 1-5 as being a remnant of Old Covenant Israel who were born again in Christ and became new creatures or creations, then dispensationalism would claim that there can be no Gentile remnant, using its extreme division between saved Gentile and saved Jew, which the quote above from Ephesians 2: 11-17 shows does not agree with New Testament scripture, Believing Gentiles become part of Israel, but this is not Old Covenant Israel of the flesh, and Paul is calling it the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 15-16."

"From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, 1965, by J. Dwight Pentecost

Pentecost is apparently following the dispensationalist extreme division between Old Covenant Israel and the Church. Though he is talking about the period of the Church Age here, he appears to be focusing only on a remnant of those of physical Israel, separating out all who are of the physical bloodline from the Gentile believers.

Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15 teach that there is a unity between Jews and Gentiles who are born again by the Spirit from the Gospel of Christ and become new creatures or creations.

In making its extreme division between Old Covenant Israel and the Church and ignoring the three New Testament scriptures in the sentence above, the founders of dispensationalism created a set of false doctrines which disagree with New Testament scripture.

"Believing Gentiles become part of Israel,(Ephesians 2: 13) but this is not Old Covenant Israel of the flesh, and Paul is calling it the Israel of God in Galatians 6: 15-16."

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16.And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." Galatians 6: 15-16

Those who are made into new creatures or new creations by believing the Gospel of Christ are born again (John 3: 1-6), and become part of the elect of God, which is a unity, not divided into Gentiles and Jews, though it can and is called the Body of Christ or in Galatians 6: 16 the Israel of God.

"15.For in Christ Jesus. The reason why he is crucified to the world, and the world to him, is, that in Christ, to whom he is spiritually united, nothing but a new creature is of any avail. Everything else must be dismissed, must perish. I refer to those things which hinder the renewing of the Spirit. “If any man be in Christ” says he, “let him be a new creature.” (2 Corinthians 5:17.) That is, if any man wishes to be considered as belonging to the kingdom of Christ, let him be created anew by the Spirit of God; let him not live any longer to himself or to the world, but let him be raised up to “newness of life.” (Romans 6:4.) His reasons for concluding that neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any importance, have been already considered. The truth of the gospel swallows up, and brings to nought, all the shadows of the law."

"And upon the Israel of God (101) This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, — and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith, (Galatians 3:29,) and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church. On the contrary, the name and lineage are the sole boast of Israel according to the flesh; and this led the apostle to argue in the Epistle to the Romans, that “they are not all Israel which are of Israel, neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children.” (Romans 9:6.)"

This is John Calvin's commentary on Galatians 6: 15-16 - the link is https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/cal/galatians-6.html

And the interpretation of Galatians 6: 15-16 above is part of Reformation Theology.

Dispensationalism is somewhat similar to Transformational Marxism and its Identity Politics or Political Correctness. Transformational Marxism operates on divisions by race, gender, sexual orientation etc and identifies those on the wrong side of divisions as enemies. Dispensationalism operates on the basis of divisions, such as Old Covenant Israel and the Church, or the division between even saved Jews and saved Gentiles and on and on. Dispensationalism is based upon division though it does not always identify as enemies those on one particular side of a division. In the case of "replacement theology" it is the enemy for dispensationalism, when it, as far as New Testament scripture is concerned, is divided from dispensationalism.

This means that what dispensationalists call "replacement theology" which seems to be Reformation Theology, though not always certain, is the enemy.

Dispensationalism then becomes the "ἀντιθέσεις," or antitheoeis, or anti-thesis, in I Timothy 6: 20 to not only Reformation Theololgy but to several New Testament texts, some listed above.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
More than 99% of dispensationalists affirm that the remnant of Romans 5:11 became members of the Body of Christ, including those who were the original MADs.

The other 1% are those who falsely teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the clear words here to the contrary:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(Jn.3:16).​

I call these people the Neo-MADs and they refuse to actually defend their perverted teaching and they wonder why other dispensationalists don't take them seriously.
Please document this 99%.

Show us your scientific study that accurately documents this.

Rom 11:5-6 KJV Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Please start a new thread where you teach us about this difference between GRACE and WORKS. Make sure to be very clear on the NO MORE OF WORKS part.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Please document this 99%.

The vast majority of dispensationalists are Acts 2 dispensationalists. It is more like 99.9% than 99%.

Show us your scientific study that accurately documents this.

Rom 11:5-6 KJV Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Please start a new thread where you teach us about this difference between GRACE and WORKS. Make sure to be very clear on the NO MORE OF WORKS part.

I don't need a whole new thread because in the following verse we read the following:

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

All people, both Jews and Gentiles, are under "law" for righteousness because Paul says that has ended for believers. If no one is under law for righteousness then it would make no sense for Paul to say that it has ended for believers.

At Romans 2:5-11 Paul explains that men are judge according to their "deeds" or "works" and says that those who "continue in well doing" (meaning not sinning) then they will receive eternal life. But for those who do not continue in well doing and obey unrighteousness then they will receive the wrath of God.

Then Paul continues and explains that the Jews will be judged by "the law" and the Gentiles by the law written in their hearts of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:12-15). Then later Paul explains that all have sinned so no one earns eternal life by their works so all people are dependent on God's grace.

Please notice that Paul makes absolutely no mention of a salvation which comes by obeying the law plus faith. Believers are no longer under the demands of law, whether they be Jews or Gentiles.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
The vast majority of dispensationalists are Acts 2 dispensationalists. It is more like 99.9% than 99%.
Doubling down on your UNDOCUMENTED statistics. Nice job Mr. Psychic

Sounds like some argumentum ad populum.

I don't need a whole new thread because in the following verse we read the following:

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

All people, both Jews and Gentiles, are under "law" for righteousness because Paul says that has ended for believers. If no one is under law for righteousness then it would make no sense for Paul to say that it has ended for believers.

At Romans 2:5-11 Paul explains that men are judge according to their "deeds" or "works" and says that those who "continue in well doing" (meaning not sinning) then they will receive eternal life. But for those who do not continue in well doing and obey unrighteousness then they will receive the wrath of God.

Then Paul continues and explains that the Jews will be judged by "the law" and the Gentiles by the law written in their hearts of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:12-15). Then later Paul explains that all have sinned so no one earns eternal life by their works so all people are dependent on God's grace.

Please notice that Paul makes absolutely no mention of a salvation which comes by obeying the law plus faith. Believers are no longer under the demands of law, whether they be Jews or Gentiles.
Had the kingdom been cancelled?

Are you like some of the Acts 2 dispensationalists that believe that there was a dispensational change at the cross, but nobody knew it until Paul?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Show us your scientific study that accurately documents this.

Rom 11:5-6 KJV Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Please start a new thread where you teach us about this difference between GRACE and WORKS. Make sure to be very clear on the NO MORE OF WORKS part.

I don't need a whole new thread because in the following verse we read the following:

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

All people, both Jews and Gentiles, are under "law" for righteousness because Paul says that has ended for believers. If no one is under law for righteousness then it would make no sense for Paul to say that it has ended for believers.

At Romans 2:5-11 Paul explains that men are judge according to their "deeds" or "works" and says that those who "continue in well doing" (meaning not sinning) then they will receive eternal life. But for those who do not continue in well doing and obey unrighteousness then they will receive the wrath of God.

Then Paul continues and explains that the Jews will be judged by "the law" and the Gentiles by the law written in their hearts of which the conscience bears witness (Ro.2:12-15). Then later Paul explains that all have sinned so no one earns eternal life by their works so all people are dependent on God's grace.

Please notice that Paul makes absolutely no mention of a salvation which comes by obeying the law plus faith. Believers are no longer under the demands of law, whether they be Jews or Gentiles.

Why don't you believe that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness in regard to the Jews who believed?

Why don't you believe the Lord Jesus' following words to the Jews who lived under the law?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​
 
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