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Mystery Babylon: Catholicism or Islam?

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  • iamaberean
    replied
    Originally posted by User Name View Post
    Matthew 23:37, Galatians 4:25, Revelation 11:8, etc., show that the harlot is Jerusalem.
    You are right!

    Leave a comment:


  • User Name
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You seem to want to ignore that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, then the Romans were destroyed by the barbarians.

    The Jerusalem we have now is the Jerusalem that saw the return of the exiles from the nations where they were scattered.
    The Jerusalem we have now is also the Jerusalem of Revelation 11:8, the city in which the Two Witnesses will be killed, and the city "which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by User Name View Post
    The Jerusalem which is now is not the New Jerusalem of millennial prophecy. It is a continuation of the Jerusalem which was then.
    You seem to want to ignore that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, then the Romans were destroyed by the barbarians.

    The Jerusalem we have now is the Jerusalem that saw the return of the exiles from the nations where they were scattered.
    New Jerusalem does not come down from heaven until after the end of the thousand years.

    Leave a comment:


  • User Name
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    That is not the Jerusalem which now is, since that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE for the very acts you mention.

    Jerusalem is not and never has been "Mystery Babylon" because Babylon is the city of exile where the children of Israel were sent when Jerusalem was destroyed.
    The Jerusalem which is now is not the New Jerusalem of millennial prophecy. It is a continuation of the Jerusalem which was then.

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by Hobie View Post
    in scripture you find a woman is a symbol of a church.
    False, a woman is a symbol of a city, it is not a symbol for a church.
    Originally posted by Hobie View Post
    it says there are seven kings - five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come.

    These heads represent kingdoms that persecuted God's people. You've got Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Five that were in the past when John has this vision, all five of those powers occupied the children of Israel and persecuted them.
    Chaldea, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome were the four beast empires mentioned in Daniel 7.
    In Revelation 17, the seven kings are all rulers of a single beast empire, so your list doesn't fit nor do any conclusions based on that list.

    Leave a comment:


  • genuineoriginal
    replied
    Originally posted by User Name View Post
    There are two Jerusalems: 1) the Jerusalem which now is (Gal 4:25); and 2) the Jerusalem of millennial prophecy.

    The "Jerusalem which now is" is "the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her" (Matt 23:37)
    That is not the Jerusalem which now is, since that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE for the very acts you mention.

    Jerusalem is not and never has been "Mystery Babylon" because Babylon is the city of exile where the children of Israel were sent when Jerusalem was destroyed.

    Leave a comment:


  • popsthebuilder1
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The words "Mystery Babylon" symbolize the religion which will be world wide in the last days. During the ages Satan has been designing this coming religion to correspond to a counterfeit Christianity. John Walvoord writes that "Nimrod, who founded Babylon (Gen. 10:8-12), had a wife known as Semiramis who founded the secret religious rites of the Babylonian mysteries, according to accounts outside the Bible. Semiramis had a son with an alledged miraculous conception who was given the name of Tammuz and in effect was a false fulfillment of the promise of the seed of the woman given to Eve (Gen.3:15)...Various religious practices were observed in connection with this false Babylonian religion, including recognition of the mother and child as God...Tammuz, according to the tradition, was killed by a wild animal and then restored to life, a satanic anticipation and counterfeit of Christ's resurrection."
    Don't you know Jesus calls believers around the world to be as one flock?

    Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Hobie
    replied
    Originally posted by binyamin7 View Post
    I am reevaluating this subject to see if I can find anything I missed previously. Rev 17-18. What are your best arguements and most to-the-point proofs one way or the other?

    EDIT: Include NYC if you thing you can prove that case. So here are the best theories available:

    1. Rome/ Catholicism
    2. Mecca/ Islam
    3. NYC/ America

    It will likely become even more clear as things unfold, but examining the Text is part of obeying the command to "watch" given to us 9 times in the New Testament when talking about the end times/ eschatology.
    Revelation 17 King James Version (KJV)
    "1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

    One of the key points is "the beast that was, and is not" but comes back. Notice "the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns", it is the same beast which receives the 'deadly wound' in Revelation 13.

    Revelation 13 King James Version (KJV)
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

    So the beast in Revelation 13 is the same beast you find in Revelation 17. The big difference is there's a woman sitting on the beast in Revelation 17. The difference is now you've got a woman, and in scripture you find a woman is a symbol of a church. This church is one that is controlling the power of Rome. So what came after the Roman Empire and rose to not just having power but a religious entity, students of history know. It says these are seven mountains, and Rome is called the city of seven hills, and a religious/political power rose from the ashes of the Roman Empire. And at the time of John, this religious entity was yet to appear as it says there are seven kings - five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come.

    These heads represent kingdoms that persecuted God's people. You've got Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Five that were in the past when John has this vision, all five of those powers occupied the children of Israel and persecuted them.

    Now of the fallen those are all in the past, and it says five are fallen. It says one is - that was Rome at John's time, Pagan Rome ruled by the Caesars. And it says the other is not yet come, and when he is come, he must continue a short space. That's a religious/political entity, with the power of Rome ruled by the church and it says he's also the eighth. Why? You go to Revelation 13, it says he gets a deadly wound but he comes back again and goes and all the way to the end when Christ comes.

    So this woman of Revelation 17 represents Babylon, the mother of harlots, false religion or apostate Christianity. Seven heads it says are seven mountains and then it says ten horns. These ten horns are the ten divisions of the Roman Empire that represent the nations of the world today. Just like in Daniel 2, where you've got the ten toes of the image after the Roman Empire, you've got the ten divisions of that Empire.

    We have in verse 12, 'And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast..' Now the word kings there means kings or kingdoms, and it appears there's going to be a short time near the end of time where this beast power is going to allow these different nations to have authority as long as they direct their people and the worship back to this religious entity which comes back, but it's temporary.

    As the next chapter clearly is about the fall of Babylon and these other kings of the earth are bewailing and lamenting her destruction. So for a brief period of time just before the plagues are poured out, the divisions of the Roman Empire are going to once again direct their authority back to the beast.

    Revelation 18 King James Version (KJV)
    "1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
    6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
    7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
    8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
    9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,"

    Now take a look at what had to happen, and who the seventh king and kingdom is, it must satisfy the following requirements:

    The timeline – It must appear on earth sometime after the sixth kingdom (Rome), and yet sometime before the eighth kingdom (the last before Christ coming).

    Activity – Like all of the other kingdoms on this list, it must dominate and persecute God’s people (either Israel, or spiritual Israel which are those grafted in, Christians).

    Type – It must be arguably describable as a religious kingdom as it says blasphemy or that it has the power and authority of God, promoting idolatry among other evil intents.

    Significance – As with the other kingdoms, it should alter the course of history in a manner that fulfills Biblical prophecy, in terms of the people and nations of the world.

    So if you look closely, there is only one power in all history that meets the description given here. In other words, God closes every other option, and forces us to the only possible conclusion: the Catholic Church alone fulfills all the points of identity established.

    Leave a comment:


  • tetelestai
    replied
    Originally posted by User Name View Post
    Matthew 23:37, Galatians 4:25, Revelation 11:8, etc., show that the harlot is Jerusalem.
    Correct

    Leave a comment:


  • tetelestai
    replied
    Originally posted by binyamin7 View Post
    Mystery Babylon: Catholicism or Islam?
    Jerusalem, first century.

    Which is why it was destroyed in 70AD

    Leave a comment:


  • Shubee
    replied
    Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her?

    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "Mystery Babylon" will be the world religion during the time preceding the Lord Jesus' return to the earth to reign from the throne of David on the earth. And the church at Rome will be at the forefront of this world religion:
    "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters....The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits" (Rev.17:1,9).

    In his commentary on verse 9 Walter J. Veith writes that "There is more than one interpretation for this text. Literally speaking, Rome is known as the city of seven hills. The Vatican sits on one side of the Tiber River, facing the seven hills. In ancient times, hills were sacred high places, used to worship and offer sacrifices to deities. The systems of worship were based on salvation by works, and also included a counterfeit saviour or Messiah and mediators of both sexes. The gods that were worshipped in these places were manifestations of the sun god who was androgenic in that he/she could manifest himself/herself in the male or the female form...One further reason why the end-time religious confederacy, under the leadership of the Papacy, is called 'Babylon' is that the Babylonian system of worship has been passed down through history. Its rituals and doctrines are present in Catholicism, as well as religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, earth religions, and even Islam."
    Will be? Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? (1 Corinthians 6:16).

    Leave a comment:


  • Shubee
    replied
    Originally posted by binyamin7 View Post
    I am reevaluating this subject to see if I can find anything I missed previously. Rev 17-18. What are your best arguements and most to-the-point proofs one way or the other?
    Babylon the Great is the overwhelmingly powerful, presumptuous, propagandistic, hegemonic regime that already exists as the union between the apostate church (Churchianity combined with Zionism) and the deep state (which already overwhelmingly controls the world).

    Leave a comment:


  • Rondonmonson
    replied
    Originally posted by binyamin7 View Post
    Appreciate your comments. But it doesn't fit that the "mother of all harlots" is all harlots. She is a distinct and greater harlot than the rest. By the explanation of the Text and the comparative nature of the description in Rev 18, we can be sure it excludes an explanation that is inclusive of all false religions.
    Rev 18 is the Gov. side, think like this, who/how does Satan rule over this world ? Through Governments and Religion. The Beast are ruled via Satan hence Rev. 12 has 7 CROWNS on the Heads, Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ hence the CROWNS are on the Horns {Kings} and in Rev. 17, the Scarlet Colored Beast is Apollyon, he has NO CROWNS, he was the prince of Persia in Dan. 10, he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, so he was of the 7, but is an 8th because he is the King of the bottomless pit, God placed him there after Rome, when the Church Age formed, thus HE WAS......IS NOT.......YET IS...He will be released from the pit at the 1st Woe.

    The Harlot is All False Religions, the Mother of Harlots means she birthed false religions, Semiramis did that, she birthed multiple false Religions. She did it in Babylon, it was/is an Abomination and it was a Worldwide Mystery Religion because Nimrod was killed by Shem who sent his body all around the villiages to prove God was the real God, thus they went underground. It was a Mystery Religion, hence all the Secret Societies of today.

    Satan uses Governments, whom he tells Jesus in Luke 4 he rules over all of them, and he uses Religion, False Religion. The Harlot that is judged is judged by the Kings in league with the Anti-Christ...BUT WHY ? He desires to be the only God. These are just facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • CatholicCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by binyamin7 View Post
    ....1. Rome/ Catholicism......
    I should be offended by that, but it is so dumb and ignorant that I can't work up the energy.

    Leave a comment:


  • binyamin7
    replied
    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post

    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = The Whole World or Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast !!
    Appreciate your comments. But it doesn't fit that the "mother of all harlots" is all harlots. She is a distinct and greater harlot than the rest. By the explanation of the Text and the comparative nature of the description in Rev 18, we can be sure it excludes an explanation that is inclusive of all false religions.

    Leave a comment:

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