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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nihilo View Post
    Those like [MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] who don't believe the Gospel that the Lord Jesus is risen. Those who don't believe that it was an historical event, a nonfiction physical fact, that His corpse was buried in a tomb (about 50 yards away from His cross), and then two days later He wasn't dead anymore and He came out of the tomb. Romans 10:9 KJV is my scripture.
    Childlikeness. Matthew 18:3 KJV
    Yes, indeed.

    Since those who are saved are children, sons and daughters of God, most certainly scriptural reason would tell us that we should live like children of the most high God.

    What an honor and privilege and responsibility!
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    • #17
      Oatmeal,

      I did not say I don't know. I said, we all of us, do not know until Jesus Judges.

      Peter says God's house hold will be judged first.
      Last edited by meshak; December 16th, 2017, 08:30 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Danoh View Post
        Nope, that is your interpretation of those passages.

        That video study continues to await you.

        The Tools Needed For Study:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

        Rom. 5:6-11.
        How is it my interpretation. I just repeated what the bible says.
        Wretched man that I am.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
          Obeying the Gospel is believing.
          I agree but what does it mean to believe? If we do not live according to the gospel, do we really believe?
          Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
          12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;




          Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
          The word there is believe not obey...just like the first part of the verse.
          I would suggest to you the word is disobey and not like the first part of the verse. Here are the Greek words used in the verse.
          Disobey apeitheó
          Believe pisteuOn

          The same Greek word for disobey is used in this verse.
          Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,



          Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
          Keeping His commandments....those He kept...that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled IN US (believers)?
          Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


          How is it, then, that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe? Romans 10:4
          He is the end of the law because he fulfilled it and nailed it to the cross. Jesus followed the law and told others to as well because that is the law of God they lived under until the cross. It is my understanding that his commandments are not the same commandments of the law. I don't know of anywhere Jesus or his apostles taught the law .
          Last edited by turbosixx; December 16th, 2017, 01:34 AM.
          Wretched man that I am.

          Comment


          • #20
            Terms of 'salvation'.........

            Originally posted by Nihilo View Post

            Those like [MENTION=1746]freelight[/MENTION] who don't believe the Gospel that the Lord Jesus is risen. Those who don't believe that it was an historical event, a nonfiction physical fact, that His corpse was buried in a tomb (about 50 yards away from His cross), and then two days later He wasn't dead anymore and He came out of the tomb. Romans 10:9 KJV is my scripture.
            Claiming to know if anyone is "saved" or not is a tall order and bordering near presumptuous, also granting that various interpretations, qualifications and definitions for 'terms' exist, even within Christendom, so this is an area I would tread carefully upon no matter how 'orthodox' one assumes their doctrine is, much is still open to personal belief, opinion and assumptions.

            You're also making your assessment above on a few dialogues we've had in the main Religion forum on 'resurrection', where I exposit on a more metaphysical figurative 'resurrection', a spiritual one more particularly for this is what Paul teaches in some verses anyways, for one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15

            The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises. (We would further add that 'resurrection' includes the rising to new life in the Spirirt, a rebirth thru divine love, a putting on of immortality, merging as one with the Lord. - this is essentially a spiritual activity, not a carnal one.)

            Re: Romans 10:9 - Paul's mention of being 'saved' is one of his own definition further based on his own 'spin' or 'translation' of Deuteronomy 30:12, where YHWH is actually telling his people they have full capacity and ability to obey his laws, since it is in their mouth and their hearts. Paul challenges that and reverses the divine profession to support his own teaching, in other words "never mind what Moses told you to do, just believe my gospel".

            Other OT verses Paul uses are basic to a universal faith in God, as in trusting in Deity and calling upon the name of God, truly any theist or spiritualist accepts these principles.

            Therefore without knowing me personally, the full extent of my spiritual journey and religious experience thus far for almost 5 decades, neither having read my entire library so far of religious/philosophical commentary, you could not really know if I was 'saved' or not beyond some particular exclusive qualification, bias, dogma or belief based upon predefined terms and conclusions.

            Since God is love and looks at the heart, God knows every heart and soul and knows the extent or quality of their salvation, and surely knows those who call upon him, regardless of their race, color, creed, religion or culture. As one continues his search for truth, goodness and beauty, inspired by love and wisdom, God certainly leads and guides his path since He is their source.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by freelight View Post
              one resurrected arises in a spiritual body. - 1 Corinthians 15

              The resurrection of Jesus was spiritual, in a spirit body although he could appear more physical to make appearances to his disciples and do things that a resurrected physical body could not do outside of supernatural powers. Therefore a physical resurrection is not necessary from various perspectives, while a spiritual one is essential, and what indeed happens upon the death of the physical body....the spirit rises.
              Luke 24:39 KJV (and Luke 24:42-43 KJV) tells us that 1st Corinthians' spiritual body, is not another name for a spirit.
              Originally posted by freelight View Post
              Re: Romans 10:9
              Nobody misunderstands what Romans 10:9 KJV says except you, Freelight.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                Well your opinion of Meshak is not the subject of this thread.
                That was about her obviously erroneous beliefs, not about her.

                She herself has ever appeared not that bad a person.

                But it is what we have each either soundly believed about salvation or not, that saves us or not, not how wonderful we may, or may not be as persons.

                Why do you think I always end my posts with Rom. 5:6-8?

                Because THAT is the actual issue - NOT the person I have posted whatever to.

                Christ ALONE...is the issue.

                You continue to prove your discernment of through words, could use some further tuning
                Last edited by Danoh; December 16th, 2017, 09:56 AM.

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                • #23
                  Oatmeal,

                  I did not say I don't know. I said, we all of us, do not know until Jesus Judges.

                  Peter says God's house hold will be judged first.


                  I just edited to clarify my comment.

                  thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                    How is it my interpretation. I just repeated what the bible says.
                    No. Along with those passages you posted what you have read into them.

                    Especially that last section of passages.

                    You mixed Ephesians 2's "Time Past," with its "But Now."

                    Here, a simpler, shorter, much more to the point video study on this issue of Ephesians 2 as a Bible Study Guideline...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

                    In memory of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by meshak View Post
                      Oatmeal,

                      I did not say I don't know. I said, we all of us, do not know until Jesus Judges.

                      Peter says God's house hold will be judged first.
                      If we have received the gift of eternal life, it is available for us to know that without any doubt whatsoever
                      "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                      "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                      Pro scripture = Protestant

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                        That was about her obviousmy erroneous beliefs, not about her.

                        She herself has ever appeared not that bad a person.

                        But it is what we have each either soundly believed about salvation or not, that saves us or not, not how wonderful we may, or may not be as persons.

                        Why do you think I always end my posts with Rom. 5:6-8?

                        Because THAT is the actual issue - NOT the person I have posted whatever to.

                        Christ ALONE...is the issue.

                        You continue to prove your discernment of through words, could use some further tuning
                        Well, the verses you provided are wonderful verses that help people understand that the gift of eternal life does not stop if a person sins after they receive it.

                        Eternal means eternal.

                        It does not mean only until you sin the first time after you receive it.

                        What if a person's relationship with their parents was like that?

                        You are their offspring and have live until the first time you soil your diapers

                        No child would survive their first bowel movement.

                        Yet somehow, people ignore those verses you listed and thing God is waiting to destroy someone He gave his son for so as to give them the opportunity to be saved from their sins

                        If a person is not saved, they do not have the gift of eternal life,

                        But is a person is saved, they do have eternal life, even if they die before Christ returns, they shall continue to live once raised from the dead to die no more.


                        A child born to human parents, that child needs to be taught, educated, learn, behave and live according to a set of standards if they are to mature.

                        Even so, the child of God needs to learn... in order to mature into the fulness of Christ. Ephesians 4:15 is clear about that
                        "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                        "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                        Pro scripture = Protestant

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                          If we have received the gift of eternal life, it is available for us to know that without any doubt whatsoever
                          Jesus' followers have a hope of salvation.

                          "For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life".


                          This is future tense.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by oatmeal View Post
                            Who is not saved?

                            Please provide scripture to show why you conclude what you conclude

                            What comes after receiving the gift of salvation that those who are not saved or those who do not know that there is more after salvation are missing out on?
                            Those not living by the will of God

                            John 3

                            Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                              Obeying the Gospel is believing.



                              The word there is believe not obey...just like the first part of the verse.



                              Keeping His commandments....those He kept...that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled IN US (believers)?
                              Romans 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


                              How is it, then, that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe? Romans 10:4
                              Because we have been given the gift of righteousness as part of that salvation package.

                              I Corinthians 1:30, II Corinthians 5:21

                              Our job is to learn to exercise that righteousness by our obedience to the word
                              "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                              "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                              Pro scripture = Protestant

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oatmeal View Post

                                Our job is to learn to exercise that righteousness by our obedience to the word
                                And we don't know if we are being obedient to the word by Jesus' standards.

                                It seems most of are deceiving ourselves, believing to be obedient.

                                Jesus' standards are super high.

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