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What is wrong with homosexuality - a primer for Christians and response

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  • #16
    It's immoral. That is what is wrong with it. If it wasn't, it is still bad behavior and kills with surety. Unlike Marlboros.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

    Comment


    • #17
      Everyone is equal at the cross, there is no discrimination, no special cases.

      Sins are washed away a new creature created, the old life is gone behold all things have become new....homosexuality need never even be spoken of. But everyone must know that we the preachers cannot impart new life, our prayers won't save and God will only grant the new creature upon repentance.

      The homos will still say it is phobic but you can turn the tables and say they are discriminating against homos denying them the new birth.

      Christians should get rid of their horror of homosexuality, too many are homo out of lonliness and inadequacy.
      One lavished upon in the Beloved
      sigpic

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
        Why not?
        I keep my mind on the final outcome

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
          Everyone is equal at the cross, there is no discrimination, no special cases.
          So murder and rape are ok. You fool.
          Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

          Titus 1

          For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

          Ephesians 5

          11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Nick M View Post
            So murder and rape are ok. You fool.
            I think she was saying the cross covers all who come to it. You are both correct in what you are saying, I believe.

            Originally posted by Nick M View Post
            It's immoral. That is what is wrong with it. If it wasn't, it is still bad behavior and kills with surety. Unlike Marlboros.
            True. Christians falling into an accommodating trap for sin, as if one is born this way thus "it is okay," is part of the concern and we have to use scriptures. "Because I told you so," works, but I think if we spell it out and use scriptures, we may help correct them and turn others to Christ. We are all born in sin and it is not okay. I don't look to excuse my anger, you don't look to excuse your covetousness even though we were 'born this way.'

            "I am just this way."
            "True. You are not supposed to be that way. It leads to death and away from God."
            My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
            Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
            Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
            Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
            No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
            Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

            ? Yep

            Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

            ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

            Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Lon View Post
              "I am just this way."
              "True. You are not supposed to be that way. It leads to death and away from God."
              No one comes to Christ unless the Father draws the person.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                So murder and rape are ok. You fool.
                I think she meant something along the following.

                One time, I was sitting in the lobby of an assembly waiting for someone, as I could still hear the preaching going on in the assembly hall, through speakers in the lobby.

                A visiting Roman Catholic stormed out of the assembly hall where a preaching about the simplicity of the Cross was going on.

                I asked her what was wrong.

                She said she could not believe what the preacher had just said.

                Jeffrey Dahmer, the infamous sodomite and serial killer had recently been murdered and was all the news.

                The preacher mentioned that Dahmer had recently stated having trusted the Lord for his salvation.

                I saw that interview. Dahmer had related that even though he now believed that the blood of Christ had washed him clean of all his sins, he pleaded he not be let out of prison; that he was still experiencing his powerful urges.

                Anyway, the preacher had mentioned that if Dahmer had actually meant what he'd said about having trusted the Lord, then he was now in glory.

                The woman was livid that that preacher had said this.

                What the preacher was saying is what I believe Totten meant by her assertion that all are equal AT the Cross.

                That preacher also noted that Saul of Tarsus had been worse than Dahmer - that Saul had had a hand in the killing of saints!

                As we say in Mid-Acts - "the ground is level at the foot of the Cross."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                  The woman was livid that that preacher had said this.
                  People on their way to hell think that way. They think they are better than the others. And having read her posts here on many things, I can easily say she is outside the faith. She backs up immoral behavior in other areas also. It isn't about salvation, she excuses wickedness.
                  Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                  Titus 1

                  For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                  Ephesians 5

                  11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                    People on their way to hell think that way. They think they are better than the others. And having read her posts here on many things, I can easily say she is outside the faith. She backs up immoral behavior in other areas also. It isn't about salvation, she excuses wickedness.
                    If such is the case, then I stand corrected as to what I believed she had meant.

                    Other than that; my post still stands as to the simplicity of the gospel of Christ, 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

                    In other words...

                    2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
                      Don't forget the context of Romans 1 is the handing over of a people to their lusts :
                      Hi Nikolai

                      I shall have a look at your post more deeply later, but one thing I'm wondering is, do you believe God gave the apostle Paul up to his own lusts?

                      1 Timothy 1:13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

                      Do you believe that Paul became the chief of sinners because God gave him up to carry out his desires?
                      Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
                        I keep my mind on the final outcome
                        Gotcha.

                        Bein' there is gonna be better than here, but I'm kinda enjoyin' the trip.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by andyc View Post
                          Hi Nikolai

                          I shall have a look at your post more deeply later, but one thing I'm wondering is, do you believe God gave the apostle Paul up to his own lusts?

                          1 Timothy 1:13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

                          Do you believe that Paul became the chief of sinners because God gave him up to carry out his desires?
                          The short answer is "No". I don't believe Paul was "given over". The thrust of Romans 1 in identifying sexual perversion is not in the context of what might be called run-of-the-mill sin and unbelief. It is specifically addressing the situation in which a people have persistently, repeatedly and wholeheartedly resisted the Truth, rebelled against God and rejected the light He has given them. Paul says that when that level and extent of idolatry is present, God essentially removes His hand of restraint and man learns just how depraved he is without God holding him back. Refer again to Ezekiel 8 and 9. The abominations Ezekiel saw were idolatries of the grossest sort - and in the temple of God! So what did God do? He departed the temple and then judged the people (see Ezekiel 9 for the judgment). Jesus said it would be easier for Sodom and Gomorrah than for Israel that rejected Him when He appeared because if they had the light Israel had, Jesus said they would have repented. The Jews suffered unbelievably in the 70AD sacking of Jerusalem. And Jesus even told them on the way to His own death...weep not for Me, but for yourselves because in that judgment, men will think it better never to have lived than to suffer so (Luke 23:28-30).

                          The West has had the light of the gospel for some time now - and has benefitted from that light in ways too numerous to count (religious, political and economic liberty being among them - these being only temporal blessings). But when such a people turn their backs on the Truth in such large numbers and with such aggression, one cannot help but see the sins of Romans 1 being fruits of that simmering and growing idolatry that has taken root in the hearts of men in our affluent society. As bad and as extreme as was Sodom and Gomorrah (which was emphatically judged), the depths of depravity and extent of judgment that we are suffering (and will suffer in the not too distant future unless some great repentance takes place in our midst) will continue to worsen until it is judged in righteousness. All because a people that had the light rejected the light because of their inveterate idolatry.

                          The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
                          But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

                          Matthew 6:22-23

                          EDIT : I hope that makes it clear why I don't see Paul as "given over" and that Romans 1 is talking about an extreme situation that has been witnessed several times in history - and what we are witnessing today.
                          If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

                          The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
                          Jeremiah 17:9

                          Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
                          Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

                          Isaiah 50:10-11

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                          • #28
                            Hi Nikolai

                            If I broke your post down in quotes, it would be a huge long post, so I'll get to the point where I disagree with what you're saying.
                            I believe you have adopted an old testament view of God's judgement. When you look at the Romans passage, Paul is talking about gentiles who sinned against conscience, with no covenant of mercy in place to reach those who became slaves to their own lusts.
                            Paul explains that the sins of the gentiles were/are great, and the Jews assumed that they were better. But the key point is, why should the Jew think he is better? What basis?
                            The gentiles sinned without the law, but the Jews sinned with the law. If the gentiles deserve judgment for sinning against conscience, the Jews deserve greater judgement for sinning against God's moral law.
                            You are using the judgement of God in the old testament, and applying it in the new.
                            However, the apostle Paul referred to himself as the chief of sinners, which means he believed he was the worst of sinners. Now we know that Paul was not an adulterer or a homosexual, but Paul looked upon his own sins as being as bad as they could get. Nothing, including homosexuality, was worse than the crimes he committed (from his perspective). His reasoning for this was to boldly proclaim that if God could save him, he can save anyone...unless.....

                            The man that God cannot save, is the man who stands defiantly against the gospel, and repels conviction from the Holy Spirit.

                            Your view, that many in this generation are being given over to their own lusts, and are falling into the judgement they supposedly deserve, is the same view that Paul was actually warning against in chapter 2.

                            1 Cor 6:9-11
                            Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 1 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
                            Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Nick M View Post
                              So murder and rape are ok. You fool.
                              Dope
                              One lavished upon in the Beloved
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
                                Dope
                                Was Nick right - that what I posted about what you might have meant by "Everyone is equal at the cross" - was wrong; is not what you had meant?

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