ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Danoh]

I don't discuss Scripture with anyone until they've shown an understanding, of how you get to that point. I sometimes share foundational Scriptures like Rom 8:9 that do address those who are still being drawn.

Given that both Strong and Vine tended toward Calvinist ideas, I am not surprised their definitions could end one up your view.

You've inadvertently had the well you drink the Word from "spiked."

While, I'm at it; do you see how fluid I am able to be with words? No dictionaries needed.

The Word IS its Own best, built in "dictionary."

Having missed that altogether, the "draw men unto me" Calvinist ends up reading his own "dictionary definitions" into such passages.

Still, if nothing else; it is great to see you lol-ing

 

[genuineoriginal]

He would be incredibly false to you and your understanding.

That happens often, since my understanding comes from the Bible itself.

I don't suppose you'd answer the question in the OP?

I addressed the OP.
Your reliance on the Greek instead of the Hebrew is misplaced, since the meanings of the Greek words are an approximation of the meanings of the Hebrew words.

Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence.

And in the Old Testament, אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah - faith refers to being steadfast and unwavering, which sounds similar to what you are trying to get at.

The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah - faith is more of a strong commitment than a surrender.
Man does not give up his will as in a surrender, but instead a man aligns his will with God's will.

 

[Faither]

Given that both Strong and Vine tended toward Calvinist ideas, I am not surprised their definitions could end one up your view.

You've inadvertently had the well you drink the Word from "spiked."

While, I'm at it; do you see how fluid I am able to be with words? No dictionaries needed.

The Word IS its Own best, built in "dictionary."

Having missed that altogether, the "draw men unto me" Calvinist ends up reading his own "dictionary definitions" into such passages.

Still, if nothing else; it is great to see you lol-ing

Well in the last week I've been called an idiot, don't know what i'm talking about, delusional, a false teacher, a con man, a lordship Salvationist, anti dispensationalist, and now your saying I'm a Calvinist. And I've seemed to have lost all credibility of which I never had according to you.

You openly reject the Original biblical texts and their dictionary's, and you gain credibility.

Am I missing anything?

 

[Faither]

That happens often, since my understanding comes from the Bible itself.


I addressed the OP.
Your reliance on the Greek instead of the Hebrew is misplaced, since the meanings of the Greek words are an approximation of the meanings of the Hebrew words.

And in the Old Testament, אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah - faith refers to being steadfast and unwavering, which sounds similar to what you are trying to get at.


אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah - faith is more of a strong commitment than a surrender.
Man does not give up his will as in a surrender, but instead a man aligns his will with God's will.

LOL, your kidding right! The Greek language "is" the closest to perfect the world knows.

The Hebrew "is" possibly the worst language on the planet.

My point being, I'm not trying to be some kind of scholar, please show me the same respect.

 

[Danoh]

Well in the last week I've been called an idiot, don't know what i'm talking about, delusional, a false teacher, a con man, a lordship Salvationist, anti dispensationalist, and now your saying I'm a Calvinist. And I've seemed to have lost all credibility of which I never had according to you.

You openly reject the Original biblical texts and their dictionary's, and you gain credibility.

Am I missing anything?

Now, now...

You claim you have the answer.

Rest in it if it is so "all that."

Better yet, drop it altogether that Christ might be formed you...

That the rest take care of itself...in...Him.

 

[journey]

You didn't read my post very closely. I never said they did anything wrong! I said they didn't have a corresponding verb in English for the noun Faith, to choose from to translate "pisteuo". They should have had the words Faither, Faithing, and to faithe, but those are not in our English language. If I put myself in their shoes, I would have probably done the same thing. The problem is the huge group of called out ones who have built their understandings on the mistranslation. The translators never saw that coming.

Remember the Greek texts have the correct translation, so we can go back and learn, if we are willing.

Baloney - did you make rules limiting what the translators could or could not do? The bottom line is simple: the translators knew or know MUCH more than you do. It's a shame that they didn't have you there to explain things to them. :duh:

 

[genuineoriginal]

LOL, your kidding right! The Greek language "is" the closest to perfect the world knows.

:rotfl:

The Hebrew "is" possibly the worst language on the planet.

Zephaniah 3:9 9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.​

God is not calling Greek a pure language.
God is calling Hebrew a pure language.

My point being, I'm not trying to be some kind of scholar, please show me the same respect.

If you want to tell people that the definitions of words are something weird sounding, please accept that you will be called on it if the definition you provide is not available in any reference.
:e4e:

 

[Faither]

Okay danoh, here's another question.

Lets say for kicks your correct, and all that's necessary to be in Christ is to "believe".

We both are glorifying our Lord, because were both correct. I'm just acting on my "belief", so i'm good because i'm "believing just like you.

Now Lets say i'm correct, and believing isn't enough and to be in Christ and does require surrendering our lives to God. Now neither of us are rejoicing , because your deemed luke warm and are not in Christ.

If your going to error, why wouldn't you error on the side of caution. I'm trying to think like you would think.

Isn't this proof that the real issue is you don't want to surrender your life to Jesus. Maybe afraid you might have to give up something you don't want to give up?

 

[Bradley D]

As for Obey, If we have started a life of surrender towards God and at some point He seals the Holy Spirit in us, He is doing any acts of obedience through us, no us by making a choice to obey. We have the choice to surrender our lives to God, and as a result of that surrender, his nature will flow out of us in the form of an obedient act.

It is possible to go against the Holy Spirit or else Paul would not have written the following scripture.

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30). I believe one can grieve the Holy Spirit. I do not believe in perfection here on earth. I feel when I do wrong the Holy Spirit lets me know. Then it up to me to reverse course or get back on the strait and narrow. It is up to me. I am not robot. But I believe God's way is the best way and continue moving towards the light. Paul wrote of his struggles with the flesh and the spirit. Paul followed Christ, but still had to deal with the flesh while here on earth.

The Holy will show me the way to go. It is up to me to take the right direction.

"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" (John 16:13).

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

1) John 3:16

English translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever "believes" (mistranslation) in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Greek translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "pisteuo" surrenders their life and will to Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

2) John 5:24

English translation : "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "believes" (mistranslation) in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Greek translation : " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "surrenders their life" (pisteuo) to Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

The reason for the two different translations is the English language has no word for the Greek word Pisteuo. So taking out the mistranslated word "believes" and putting in the Greek definition of pisteuo gives us a better understanding of what the Greek texts were trying to convey.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the Gospels alone. I'll continue to post the true meanings of other Scriptures

4) Rom. 3:22

English mistranslation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith In Jesus Christ to all and on all who "believe". (mistranslated word "believe) For there is no difference;

Greek corrected translation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who "surrender there lives to Him". (pisteuo) For there is no difference;

5) 1 Cor. 14:22,

English mistranslation: "Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; But prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe."

Corrected English translation from the Greek: Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who surrender their lives to Jesus but to those who surrender their lives to another Jesus; but prophesy is not for those who surrender their lives to someone other than the NT Christ but for those who do surrender their lives to the Jesus Christ of the NT.

6)Eph. 1:19

English mistranslation of "pisteuo." "And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who "believe" (mistranslation) according to the working of His mighty power.

Corrected translation of "pisteuo" " And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who surrender our lives to Christ, according to the working of His mighty power.

The correct translation of "pisteuo", changes the meaning from a false understanding to a true understanding.

 

[journey]

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

It really doesn't matter that you say you won't accept Greek dictionary definitions. You don't accept correct translations either - you're wrong.

 

[Danoh]

Okay danoh, here's another question.

Lets say for kicks your correct, and all that's necessary to be in Christ is to "believe".

We both are glorifying our Lord, because were both correct. I'm just acting on my "belief", so i'm good because i'm "believing just like you.

Now Lets say i'm correct, and believing isn't enough and to be in Christ and does require surrendering our lives to God. Now neither of us are rejoicing , because your deemed luke warm and are not in Christ.

If your going to error, why wouldn't you error on the side of caution. I'm trying to think like you would think.

Isn't this proof that the real issue is you don't want to surrender your life to Jesus. Maybe afraid you might have to give up something you don't want to give up?

Your every post reveals the mind of one who has invested a great deal of time in an OVER reliance on the endless "notions of" men.

So its no surprise you are unable to get through the various passages of Scripture without said "notions of" as your guide.

It is no surprise, then, that my "plainess of speech" went right past your OVER reliance.

I'll lay it out one last time...

Spoiler

...as one invests time in the Word, learning there about who God has made him in His Son, learning about what God has done for Himself in His Son, he cannot but rejoice in that, and as he does, he is transformed by that from his inward man outward, as by the Spirit of the Lord working in his inward man through His Word.

Whenever you exchange with another Believer in any way shape or form; how they conduct themselves with you will make evident the extent to which they have invested time in this process that the Apostle Paul wrote so extensively about.

Nevertheless, that cannot be legislated. If it could be, than Christ died in vain.

Meaning, whenever we encounter Believers who have obviously not invested that kind of time in Scripture as to this issue; who continually fall short of that; there every other word short of a curse word, and their behavior no better, we are to keep in mind Paul's "Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand." 2 Cor. 1:24.

Preach your surrender all you will, I do not need it.

I have something far better - "the love of Christ" - Grace Motivation to motivate my being transformed by the renewing of my mind by His great love wherewith He loved us so, that He died for us.

You keep your little formula. I have the Creator of Heaven and Earth dwelling in me unto "to the praise of the glory of His grace wherein He HATH made us ACCEPTED IN the Beloved" as all the motivation I need.

 

[Faither]

He gave His life for you danoh. Why won't you do the same for Him. Thats what he wants from you! He's called you out, from among many others He hasn't called out. Hes drawn you to make a decision to surrender your life to Him. I've shown you "FACTS" ,not my opinion, on what true NT faithing is yet you reject all of it. Why is it ok for Jesus to give His life for you and your household, and He's not good enough for you to do the same, even after I've shown you over and over again the truth. Is your stubbornness worth not only your fate, but your households too?

 

[journey]

He gave His life for you danoh. Why won't you do the same for Him. Thats what he wants from you! He's called you out, from among many others He hasn't called out. Hes drawn you to make a decision to surrender your life to Him. I've shown you "FACTS" ,not my opinion, on what true NT faithing is yet you reject all of it. Why is it ok for Jesus to give His life for you and your household, and He's not good enough for you to do the same, even after I've shown you over and over again the truth. Is your stubbornness worth not only your fate, but your households too?

You've stretched your own OPINION so far that you've fabricated your OWN Gospel and how to be Saved. By the way, you still haven't shown us the complete definitions of what you base your opinions on - and the source. I don't think that you can.

Galatians 1:6-12 KJV I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I would post some Greek New Testament examples for you, but the forum doesn't have the fonts I need. The bottom line is you're wrong. I've shown you the correct definition of "Pisteuo", and you didn't like it. I understand why now.

 

[Faither]

John 4:50:

English mistranslation: "So the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to Him."

Greek correct translation: So the man committed his life to the words Jesus spoke to Him.

In these examples, I've simply taken the definition of "pisteuo" word for word out of the Strongs and vines and used them in the sentence, replacing the mistranslated word "believed.

Any questions concerning these translations, please read the OP.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

I Like kinda where your going, but let me say what you said back to you and see if you catch what I did.

You said,
"A trusting relationship, where we give ourselves to Him for all that He has done for us."

The start of your statement and lines before it were great! Until you added, " where we give ourselves to Him" "FOR" all that He has done for us."

That's not surrender! That's what we do when we go to a vending machine and put the quarter in and wait for the prize to come out. That's what the problem with the churches and understandings today. People have a kind of investment mentality. When have you ever heard of someone surrendering on a battlefield, and saying to their captures, "here's my list of things i'm going to need if I surrender to you." There's no negotiation in surrendering your life to someone, especially Jesus! The trusting is, you are trusting Him to "guide" you in everything! And all the decisions we make everyday tell Jesus loud and clear if we really have surrendered our lives to Him. And I'm really just talking about the beginning of the relationship here.

After reading your post several times , there is kind of two ways I could take it. Especially the one line. maybe you could elaborate.

For clarity's sake. Our faith, our trust, our relationship with Christ is a process of growing faith, trust, transformation, and sanctification in Him.
Now as He as taught me to understand this, in my experience with Him, the Holy Spirit and His word, there are errors on both sides of the fence.

The first being God manipulates Us in this as some robot, this in effect really amounts to no trust, no relationship.

The second error is that this faith, trust, relationship is totally dependent upon us, our pride building efforts. Basically legalism, following the New Testament on our own apart from Christ and trust in Him.

The truth lies in the middle; our relationship is both dependent upon Him and His grace and our trust in Him.
You mentioned the beginning of our relationship with Him.
"But God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
"We love because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19

So He draws, He convicts our hearts, we turn, we repent, we place our faith and trust in Him, our shame is gone His love fills our hearts. What now? Is our faith lacking nothing, is our sanctification complete, are we now mature in Christ? No His work is not over and neither is our will gone. Sadly people experience His love and turn away, in part because of theolgy, lies that convince that this is not possible.
We don't negioate what we get from Him at our ever increasing trust in Him, but oh what glorious thing for a life abadoned to Jesus Christ, such as Paul. Who said in Phiilipians 3 He still needed to press on, I'm convinced that is exactly what He did. Paul knew the dangers of Pride of believing I'm complete. And Jesus told Him, I will not remove your thorn so that you continue to rely upon me, as His power is made perfect in weakness. (2 Corinthians 12:9)

Any growing trust, relationship, intimacy requires two willing participants.

"...the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and it's end eternal life." Romans 6:22
"...may grow up into Him..." Ephesians 4:15
"...transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18
"...but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." Galatians 6:8

 

[Danoh]

I picked up something in your post. You said a "BIAS" dictionary. Originally, you said you didn't need to look at the Greek texts, which I can see a state of that existing baring the correct understanding, but are you now saying you think the Greek dictionary's are bias?

Lol - It continues to remain crystal clear to me that you are unable to get at the intended sense of another's words without the aid of your obvious crutch "the holy dictionary" notion you have obviously traded in your AA book of word meanings within one "religion" for word meanings within the "religion" or binding you now hold to.

Or rather, by which you have once more made yourself captive to this opposing of yourself by yourself.

In this, you are much like one of those old World War II Japanese soldiers found in caves decades after the war was over, still attempting to hold the fort, and in "concordance" with the last man-made version of "orders from The Supreme High Command."

The war is over, old war horse. It was won two thousand years ago.

That's right - some two thousand years ago...the Bomb was dropped, the enemy's power was rendered dead and afterwards the Great General forever sat down at the Commander in Chief's Right Hand, expecting to stand up once more only when He returns to begin the long haul of making His enemies His footstool.

Its March, Faither...St. Paddy's day is right around the corner. Relax already "For Christ's sake" - put on the green, and go out and celebrate that the war has been won.

Have a drink of His Spirit, for once "be filled with" same...

Put away the "strong's" "vine's."

 

[Danoh]

Faither says "And all the decisions we make everyday tell Jesus loud and clear if we really have surrendered our lives to Him."

Straight out of Romans 7's "O wretched man...bondage of this death."

 

[Faither]

Lol - It continues to remain crystal clear to me that you are unable to get at the intended sense of another's words without the aid of your obvious crutch "the holy dictionary" notion you have obviously traded in your AA book of word meanings within one "religion" for word meanings within the "religion" or binding you now hold to.

Or rather, by which you have once more made yourself captive to this opposing of yourself by yourself.

In this, you are much like one of those old World War II Japanese soldiers found in caves decades after the war was over, still attempting to hold the fort, and in "concordance" with the last man-made version of "orders from The Supreme High Command."

The war is over, old war horse. It was won two thousand years ago.

That's right - some two thousand years ago...the Bomb was dropped, the enemy's power was rendered dead and afterwards the Great General forever sat down at the Commander in Chief's Right Hand, expecting to stand up once more only when He returns to begin the long haul of making His enemies His footstool.

Its March, Faither...St. Paddy's day is right around the corner. Relax already "For Christ's sake" - put on the green, and go out and celebrate that the war has been won.

Have a drink of His Spirit, for once "be filled with" same...

Put away the "strong's" "vine's."

If you don't agree with the Scriptures I've posted with there corrections. Please directly tell why.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

thanks

repost because of the many misrepresentations along the way.