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The Olivet Discourse of John

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  • The Olivet Discourse of John


    The Olivet Discourse of John

    Introduction: Jesus’ famous discourse on the Mt. of Olives concerning the events of the “last days” is missing in John’s Gospel. Why? Some have concluded that John’s Apocalypse, aka Revelation, is his answer to that question. While not identical to the discourse recorded in the synoptic Gospels, there are some interesting parallels and, characteristically of what John does with his Gospel, expansions and added detail found nowhere else in the New Testament.

    Revelation 1

    1 2
    O Thou with eyes alight and all aflame
    Whose hair shines bright, more brilliant than the sun
    Before Whom all fall dead, and in their shame
    Thou all in all and far more than the sum
    Of all the petty wondrous worlds You’ve made
    Stand You behind the backdrop of dread time
    Thou light before Whom now lives no black shade
    Before Whom none may restitute his crime
    Thou Everlasting, limitless of days
    Who in one day on earth did choose to die
    Now living evermore, receive all praise
    And hear our pleas and listen to our cries:
    Hold tight the keys to death and Hades hell
    Unlock for us Thy life, and all is well!
    O Thou with eyes alight and all aflame
    Whose face shines bright, more brilliant than the sun
    Before Whom all fall dead, so in their shame
    Thou first and last and far more than the sum
    Of all the petty wondrous stars You’ve made
    You stand behind the lamp stands of dread time
    Thou Priest before Whom now rests no black shade
    Before Whom none may restitute his crime
    Thou Everlasting, limitless of days
    Who in one day on earth did choose to die
    Now living evermore, receive all praise
    And hear our pleas and listen to our cries:
    Hold tight the keys to death and Hades hell
    Unlock for us Thy life, and all is well!
    Synoptics Jesus’ Words Historical Marker John’s Vision Revelation
    Mt. 24 Mk. 13 Lk. 21: Intro.: 1:1-11
    1 1 5 Jesus and his men exiting the temple War. 6:5:3 Vision of Jesus the High Priest in his Temple 1:12-18
    2-3 2-4 6-7 Peter, James, John and Andrew ask: When and what sign? Notice: “Now” and “Later” – Near Term: the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple (70 AD); Remote Term: Final Coming of Christ John told to write down: “what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” 1:19-20
    4-5 5-6 8 False teachers Josephus, Antiq.20:8:6; Wars, 6:5:2 Warnings against false teachers 2-3
    False claims of Messiah/I AM Vision of God Almighty and the Lamb 4-5
    6 7 9 Wars and rumors Tacitus, The Histories, 1:5-7 Vision of the white horse of conquest 6:1-2 THE SEVEN SEALS S-1
    7a 8a 10 Nation against nation Tacitus, The Histories, 1:5-7 Vision of red horse of all out war 6:3-4 S-2
    7b-8 8b 11 Famine, pestilence, natural disasters Famine in the reign of Claudius (41-54 AD - Acts 11:27-28)
    Plagues in the reigns of Nero and Titus - Suetonius, Caesars,Nero, 39; Titus, 8 Earthquakes and eruption of Vesuvius, Titus, 8; Tacitus, Annals, 12:58, 14:27, 15:22; Seneca, Ep. 91, Josephus, War. 6:3:3, 6:9:3
    Vision of the black horse of famine and the pale horse of plague 6:5-8 S-3&4
    9-13, cf. 10:11-42 9-13 12-19 Persecution and martyrdom Jewish persecution of Christians – Acts. Nero’s persecution -
    Tacitus, Annals15:44; Suetonius, Caesars, Nero, 16
    Vision of the martyred saints waiting 6:9-11 S-5
    14 9b-10 12b-13 Gospel to go into all civilization and have a trans-political, trans –ethnic impact Col. 1:21-23 Vision of the trans-national impact of the Gospel 6:11& 7:9 S-5
    15-28 14-23 20-24 Abomination of Desolation in Jerusalem Josephus, Wars, 6:4:7 Cf. Antiquities,18:8:2 Vision of the Great Day of Wrath of God and the Lamb, including heavenly and earthly signs as men face God
    EARTHQUAKE
    6:12-17 S-6
    29 24-25 25-26 Signs in heaven and on earth Josephus, Wars, 5:12:3, 6:5:3 (Also Tacitus, History,5:13; Suetonius)
    Cf. Wars, 5:6:3 variant mss reading
    30-35 26-31 27-33 Coming of the Son of Man
    36-51 32-37 34-36 Watch - stay alert! Be ready to stand before the Son of Man. The Hebrew Church escapes. Eusebius,Ecclesiastical History, 3:5:3
    Lk. 21:20-22
    Vision of the Church (Jewish and Gentile) that survives the Great Tribulation.** 7:1-17 S-6
    The Pregnant Pause The pause in the war took place (Summer 69) as Vespasian prepared to take on Jerusalem but learned of Nero’s suicide. He and son Titus move to secure Rome. Vision of a silent pause in heaven 8:1, cf. 7:3 S-7
    20 18 36 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on a Sabbath. Pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen. Vision of the prayers/petitions of believers rising to God from the altar of incense (cf. 6:10-11). 8:2-5 THE SEVEN TRUMPETS

  • #2
    Originally posted by Taraxacum View Post
    The Olivet Discourse of John

    Introduction: Jesus’ famous discourse on the Mt. of Olives concerning the events of the “last days” is missing in John’s Gospel.
    What do you mean by "missing"? Do you mean that, though it's not in John's Gospel, it should have been? Why should it have been? Why should John have written about, and/or recorded, Jesus' Olivet Discourse, in any book?

    Originally posted by Taraxacum View Post
    Why? Some have concluded that John’s Apocalypse, aka Revelation, is his answer to that question.
    Concluded? From what? Not, of course, from anything that is written in the Olivet Discourse passages, nor from anything that is written in Revelation.

    Originally posted by Taraxacum View Post
    While not identical to the discourse recorded in the synoptic Gospels,
    nor even remotely resembling, in form or contents, the Olivet Discourse.

    Originally posted by Taraxacum View Post
    there are some interesting parallels and, characteristically of what John does with his Gospel, expansions and added detail found nowhere else in the New Testament.
    What does Jesus say to the angels of the seven churches in Asia in the Olivet Discourse passages of the NT?

    If you're going to arbitrarily ask why John, in his Gospel, does not record anything about Jesus' Olivet Discourse, then why not, also, arbitrarily ask why Matthew, Mark, and Luke, in their Gospels, do not record anything about the seven churches in Asia, and Jesus' epistles to the angels of those churches? Why not also ask why neither Matthew, Mark, nor Luke, each wrote a book separate from their respective Gospels, devoted to all the same subject matter as John wrote about in his Gospel? Why is there no canonical Apocalypse of Matthew, nor canonical Apocalypse of Mark, nor Apocalypse of Luke?

    Why would John, who was, if I'm not mistaken, present in the audience when Jesus delivered His Olivet Discourse, need to have years later been imprisoned hundreds of miles away from the Mount of Olives in Judaea, far away on the Isle of Patmos, to have Jesus reveal to him essentially what Jesus had supposedly already revealed to him--this time around just with some "expansions" and "added detail"?

    Of course, the Olivet Discourse is Jesus' Olivet Discourse. It is not Matthew's Olivet Discourse, it is not Mark's Olivet Discourse, it is not Luke's Olivet Discourse, and, of course, it is not John's Olivet Discourse--it is not "The Olivet Discourse of John".

    What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

    MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

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