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Scriptural Basis for the Alternative to the Five Points of Calvinism & Arminianism

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  • Scriptural Basis for the Alternative to the Five Points of Calvinism & Arminianism

    Biblical Basis of the Five Points of the Simplified Soteriological Proposition (SSP):
    =================================
    By Samie S. Pimentel

    The following discussions take up each of the Five Points, similarly numbered as in the presentation in my previous post.
    1. Total Empowerment.

    This SSP holds on to the position that total empowerment was made possible only through Christ. Here’s the scriptural basis.

    God knows the end from the beginning. As recorded by the prophet, He said:

    KJV Isaiah 46:9-10
    1. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    2. Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

    Therefore, from the very beginning of the inception of the plan for the creation of man, the Creator was fully aware that Adam and all his descendants will fall into sin. He knew full well the dire result that sin will bring to man – separation from God (Isa 59:2) and death (Rom 5:12).

    Powerful as He is, would He, long before the creation of man, not then had came up with a superb plan to thwart the dire results that sin will bring and still be both a just and merciful God? This SSP believes so.

    Or, as suggested by Augustine of Hippo, albeit indirectly, God allowed sin to have its sway for FOUR (4) millennia before sending heaven’s Solution to the sin problem, a position seemed to have been swallowed hook, line and sinker by followers of various belief systems that teach people are born in sin?

    What does the Bible tell us of how prepared God was in relation to the occurrence of the spiritual emergency that sin will bring? Here’s the apostle Paul.Writing to Timothy, he said:

    KJV 2 Timothy 1:
    1. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
    2. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

    “before the world began”; the Greek word translated into “world” in the KJV is “chronos” which means “time, long or short”.Greek for “world” is “kosmos” as in John 3:16, for God so loved the “world”. Hence, the NKJ is more faithful to the original Greek in this issue.

    NKJ 2 Timothy 1:
    8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
    9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began

    Splendid! That grace was given to whom, and when? Yes, clear from the verse. God’s grace was
    1. To whom given: “Given to us in Christ Jesus”;
    2. When given: “before time began”.

    So, who were the “us in Christ Jesus” to whom God’s grace was given “before time began”? Since Paul was writing to Timothy, the “us” must specifically refer to both Paul and Timothy. Hence, in the immediate context of 2 Timothy, God gave grace to Paul and Timothy in Christ Jesus before time began.

    Were Paul and Timothy already there before time began? Yes, they were in Christ Jesus, as the verse explicitly says, otherwise there was no reason giving grace to “them” when there was no “them” to be given grace. But how were they in Christ before time began?

    Let’s allow the Bible to tell us how that is so. Let’s read those verses again, but this time let’s include verse 10.

    NKJ 2 Timothy 1:
    8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
    9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
    10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

    Whatever was done by God for Paul and Timothy before time began was “revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ”. So how could have the appearing of our Lord explained that Paul and Timothy were in Christ before time began?

    Let’s dig a wee bit deeper into Scriptures. In John 15, our Savior said:

    KJVJohn 15:
    1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
    2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
    3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
    4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
    5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
    .
    Our Savior is the True Vine, the Father is the husbandman, the vinedresser Who planted the True Vine; in v5, speaking to His disciples, He said “I am the vine, ye are the branches”. The True Vine planted by the Creator of the whole universe has its own natural branches. The disciples are natural branches of the True Vine. They grew out or sprouted out from the True Vine Itself. Prior to their sprouting out as branches, they were already in the True Vine, waiting for God’s opportune time for them to sprout as branches of the True Vine. When the time comes for them to sprout out as branches of the True Vine, God will cause their mothers to give them physical birth. This explains how Paul and Timothy were in Christ before time began. Prior to their physical births, they were already in Christ, the True Vine.

    But were Paul and Timothy the only ones who were benefited by God’s grace through which God’s saving and calling became reality? Here’s Paul’s own answer; writing this time to Titus, the apostle said:

    NAS Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men.

    Therefore, in the purview of Paul, the “us in Christ Jesus” who were given grace, were specifically he & Timothy, and GENERALLY all men, all people because that grace brought salvation to all men, not just to Timothy & Paul. Hence, all people are natural branches of the True Vine. They all, just like Timothy and Paul, were in Christ before time began. How so?

    Because the Father created us all (Mal 2:10) in His Son unto good works (Eph 2:10). Hence, having been created in Christ, we were already in Him when we were physically born into this world.

    But how does this creating in Christ preempt the dire results that sin would bring? Did this apply to Adam when he fell into sin?

    As discussed above, all of us, and that should include Adam, were in Christ, The True Vine, before time began. When Adam physically existed here on earth, he was already in Christ. When he sinned, that sin separated him from God but not from Christ Who is THE Only Way back to the Father. For one to be separated from Christ, his name had to be blotted out from the book of life, a prerogative that belongs to Christ alone Who assured that overcomers will not be blotted out (Rev 3:5). For as long as a man is alive his name remains in the book of life because judgment to blot a name or not is only rendered after a person dies (Heb 9:27). There is yet hope while alive.

    Hence, all throughout one’s lifetime, he is in Christ. And to be in Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4) is to preempt death; to be in Christ Who is the only Way back to the Father (John 14:6) is to preempt separation from God. Therefore, God’s creating us all in His Son preempted the dire results that sin would bring. God had provided the solution to and acted on the emergency long before the emergency occurred.

    In contrast, belief systems that teach people are born in sin, indirectly portrays God as One Who upon seeing man fall into sin, simply allowed man’s nature to morph from good to evil and NOT until more than FOUR (4) millennia after the emergency in Eden did He send down the Solution from heaven offering how man may parry the result of the sin problem; quite a defective depiction of our heavenly Father. Even an earthly father would do his all right on that same instant he sees his child fall into the water and his child can’t swim.

    Here is another scenario where the basic flaw of Arminianism, Calvinism and all other belief systems that teach people are born in sin, born APART from Christ. is exposed. Their teaching makes of Christ, Who is the True Vine, as a Vine that has no natural branches of its own to start with. It makes of The Gardener Who planted the True Vine, the Creator of the whole universe, as one Gardener who has to rely on branches of false vines He did not plant, so His own planted Vine, The Only True Vine, can have branches. Absurd, isn’t it?

    These belief systems depict both the Father and the Son differently from how the Bible portrays Them. The Father is the Gardener, the One Who planted the True Vine. How could the True Vine not have the ability to grow its own natural branches? Rely on branches from false vines? False vines can grow their own natural branches while the True Vine cannot? From whom did these false vines get their ability to develop their own natural branches? Only God is able to do the act of creating. Where in the Bible does it say that He created spiritual false vines? It is only THE True Vine that God the Father, the Gardener, planted. And its branches are its own natural branches simply because there are no other vines spoken of in Scriptures where to get its branches from. The Father planted only one vine and that is The True Vine, our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ.

    So, why total empowerment through Christ? Because the True Vine Himself said that when one is not in Him, he can do NOTHING:

    NAS John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing.

    The fact that people can do the acts of accepting, believing, repenting, etc. simply shows that people can do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. Therefore, they were already in Christ PRIOR to their doing of those acts, otherwise, they could have done NOTHING.

    This is fatal to all belief systems that require people, who proponents of these systems consider to be not in Christ, being born in sin, to first believe so they can be in Christ. Fatal because while Christ said that when apart from Him man can do NOTHING, proponents of these belief systems say while yet apart from Christ people can do SOMETHING so they can be in Him. Am quite amazed how they could not have realized that their teaching is diametrically opposed to the doctrine of Christ.

    Christ Himself said that all power, under heaven and earth was given Him:

    KJV Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    The apostle Paul said that Christ is the power of God:

    KJV 1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God

    Therefore Christ is THE Only Source of Power. If anyone is not PLUGGED IN to Him, not attached to Him, he is powerless. In Christ’s own statement, he can do NOTHING. Therefore it is a basic spiritual NECESSITY that people had to start life on earth ALREADY in Christ, otherwise they can do NOTHING: they cannot even do the act of believing. Why?
    1. When one is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit because only those in Christ Who is the True Vine, can bear fruit. John 15:4, 5
    2. When one cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22
    3. When one cannot have faith, he cannot believe because faith is needed so one can believe. Heb 11:6
    4. Therefore, when one is not in Christ he cannot bear fruit, cannot have faith and cannot believe.

    Unfortunately for these born-in-sin proponents, people can do the act of believing, in fact, they ask them to. Hence, people can do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. Therefore, they were born NOT apart from Christ.

    Whereas Arminianism and Calvinism teach that people start life on earth born in sin, born APART from Christ, we have clearly shown from Scriptures that people start life on earth ALREADY in Christ.


    2. Universal or General Election.

    TWO (2) Bible facts:
    1. God is not a respecter of persons; He does not play favorites.

    KJV Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.

    KJV Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    KJV 1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
    1. He also wants all men to be saved:

    NAS 1 Timothy 2:
    3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Because God wants all to be saved and come to a knowledge of truth, and He is not a respecter of persons, that is, there is no favoritism with Him, to elect some and not elect all does not fit His character. Good thing, the Bible teaches that God elected all, chosen all to be in Christ before the foundation of the world.

    KJV Ephesians 1:
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

    But does the “us” referred to by the apostle Paul mentioned in the THREE (3) verses above, refer to all people, or only to the believers, as is commonly taught by proponents of the belief systems that teach people are born in sin? They reason out that because the apostle was writing to the believers in Ephesus in particular, the application should be to the believers only in general, not to all people. The reasoning is, unless one is a believer, he is not among the “us”, hence, their believing is what set them apart.

    Let us clarify this issue by allowing apostle Paul himself to enlighten us of what he really meant with his usage of the word “us” in Eph 1:3-5 quoted above.

    In Eph 2:4-5, the apostle Paul again used this pronoun “us” to refer to the same group of people in the previous chapter:

    NAS Ephesians 2:
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

    The apostle Paul was writing to the believers in Ephesus (Eph 1:1). In using the pronouns “us” and “we”, he identified himself with them as being recipients of what God did for them. They were chosen or elected by God before the foundation of the world; They were dead in sins but God made them alive together with Christ. Now, wait. Notice that the “us” referred to were those chosen before the foundation of the world; the same “us” who were made alive together with Christ. For the “us” to be made alive together with Christ necessitates that when Christ was made alive or resurrected, the “us” were also made alive together with Him. The four-word English phrase “made alive together with” is translated from a single Greek verb “suzoopoieo”. This tells us that the making alive was together with Christ when Christ was made alive. In other words, the act God made for the “us” was done for all of them at the very same time the triggering event occurred – the resurrection of Christ. And since the triggering event WILL NOT OCCUR AGAIN simply because Christ cannot die again, if one is not among those made alive at the resurrection of Christ, then he has no hope of being made alive anymore.

    KJV Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    This again is a lethal blow to the teaching of the belief systems that teach people are born in sin. They teach that the making alive occurs one a time as each one believes. How could have they arrived at such an unbiblical conclusion? The biblical teaching is crystal clear: “MADE ALIVE TOGETHER WITH” Christ. The making alive of the “us” was done when Christ was made alive, and that was when He resurrected from the grave. Not made alive one at a time as each one believes. Their believing has NOTHING to do with their being made alive together with Christ. How so?

    The apostle Paul became a believer on the road to Damascus, around TWO (2) years after the resurrection of Christ. The Ephesian believers he was writing to became believers more than FIVE (5) years after the resurrection of Christ. But Paul said that he and them, the “us”, were made alive together, that is, made alive at the same time, and that was when the Lord resurrected from the dead; not one at a time, as each one believed. It is then a crystal-clear biblical fact that they were not yet believers when they were made alive together with Christ! THEREFORE, their believing has NOTHING to do with their being made alive together with Christ, simply because when Christ rose from the dead, they were still unbelievers; and that was when they were made alive together with Christ.

    The “us” therefore refers to Paul and the Ephesian believers in particular, and to all people in general, believers or unbelievers, because when Christ resurrected those made alive together with Him were not believers yet.


    3. Limitless and Unconditional Redemption or Atonement

    As discussed earlier, the Father knew full well before time began that Adam and all of his descendants will commit sin, bringing death and separation from Him. If man himself dies for his own sin, then he would have paid for his sin God hates, but then God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves having died separate from Him. He therefore crafted a unique plan so that man may be able to pay for his own sin and at the same time given another shot at life eternal.

    So what did He do? He created them all in His Son for good works:

    NKJ Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?

    NKJ Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    How was the creation in Christ done? Via The One New Man that Christ created in Himself: Christ the Head, Jews & Gentiles, the Body.

    NIV Ephesians 2:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
    15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
    16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

    When the Head died, the Body died:

    NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:
    14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
    15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    Who is the “all” for whom Christ died, and who also died when He died?

    KJV Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man

    The “all” for whom Christ died who also died when he died, is “every man”; no one exempted nor left out. Hence, His Body is composed of the “all” for whom He died, and who also died when He died. It is therefore an incontrovertible biblical fact that we all, both Christians & non-Christians, were already in Christ, being His Body with all our sins when He died on the cross:

    NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

    And having died, when He died, that death, reconciled us all to God:

    KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    That death washed us clean from all sin:

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

    Through that death, God forgave us from all sins:

    KJV Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

    And having been forgiven, God remembers our sins no more:

    KJV Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    Being His Body when He died, we died when He died and when He resurrected we were made alive together with Him:

    NAS Ephesians 2:
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

    God’s creating us all in Christ met the problem of sin head-on. We not only were able to pay for our own sins but also were given another shot at eternal life. Now that we all are in the Body of Christ, what next?


    4. Imperative Call to Repentance, to overcome evil with good

    Our being in Christ gave us access to His Power to overcome evil with good. Hence it is not a question of inability but one of refusal if we don’t overcome evil with good. We can either use His Power to do good or to do evil; our choice. Freewill. In Christ’s own words, Repent or Perish (Luke 13:3, 5), for all have sinned (Rom 3:23), and we all like sheep have gone astray (Isa 53:6).

    The command to repent is the same command God made in the old testament (Ezek 18:30); the same command He now wants all men everywhere to obey (Acts 17:30); the same command Jesus made in the gospel that He preached; the same gospel He wanted preached to the world before He comes again (Matt 24:14).

    By creating us all in Christ, God has effectively empowered us to be able to do His will, because only those who do His will can enter the kingdom of Heaven.

    KJV Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    This again is a blow straight-to-the-jugular of proponents of belief systems that teach people are born in sin, born apart from Christ. For, if indeed, people are born apart from Christ, then how can they be expected to do anything good while yet not in Him? Can the leopard change its spots?

    Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil.
    If they have no capability to do good being yet not in Christ, and won’t be allowed entry into the kingdom of heaven but instead thrown into the lake of fire, then proponents of belief systems teaching that people are born in sin, portray our Father as a God Who punishes people for not doing what they have no power to do. Punishing cats for not being able to bark?

    But that is not how Scriptures depict our Father. He EMPOWERED us all, by creating us in His only begotten Son through Whom we, as with the apostle Paul, can do all things:

    NKJ Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

    Hence, having been empowered, we have access to His Power to overcome evil with good. There are times that we are overcome of evil and commit sin. What then?

    The Bible says that Jesus was offered for our sins and raised to life for our justification:

    NIV Romans 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

    Justification is God’s act of considering one who has committed sin as if he had not sinned; that sin is not imputed, not counted against him,; that sin having been forgiven on the cross.

    KJV 2 Corinthians 5:
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

    Raised for our justification, our Savior ministers for us in the heavenly sanctuary justifying us every time we commit sin. But the sin committed reminds us that we are overcome of evil yet instead of us overcoming evil with good. Luckily, the decision that would determine whether one is an overcomer or not is handed down after one is dead, for judgment comes after a person has died.

    NKJ Hebrews 9:27 … it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment

    There’s hope while alive. We can still overcome evil with good. For that is the intent why God created us in His Son in the first place:

    KJV Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


    5. Perseverance to Overcome Evil with Good

    We are born in Christ; we’re on our way to heaven starting when we were born. This is why Jesus Himself gave this assurance:

    KJV Matthew 18:
    1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
    2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
    3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven

    KJV Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

    Those foregoing statements of Christ ring a funeral toll in the ears of proponents of belief systems teaching people are born in sin. Because while according to Christ Himself, little children are heaven-bound, these born-in-sin proponents send the little children to the opposite direction, more so if a child is one with non-Christian parents. Looks like these proponents missed reading this future scenario of little children in the holy mountain of God:

    KJV Isaiah 11:
    6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    But, of course, we did not remain little children. We grew up. And commensurate with our spiritual level of maturity comes with it our corresponding level of spiritual responsibility. God knows what to require of us. He knows us better than we know ourselves. It’s He who wrote in our hearts and minds what He wills for us.

    KJV Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    We don’t measure others by the same yardstick we measure ourselves. Says the apostle:

    NIV Philippians 3:
    13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead,
    14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
    15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
    16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

    The norm is perfection. Said Christ:

    NKJ Matthew 5:48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    Perfection is relative. In an examination, when one gives all correct answers to all questions, he gets a PERFECT score. If there were 10 questions, he should have given 10 correct answers, one each for every question. 10/10 is perfect. If there were 100 questions, he should have given 100 correct answers, one each for every question. 100/100 is perfect. But 99/100 is not perfect. Surely, 99 is far greater than 10, but he who got 10/10 had it perfect. One can’t complain that he fared better than the one who got 10/10 since he got 99 correct answers, while the other only got 10. The basis is, what did the Lord write in your heart and mind? Did He write 10? Or did He write 100? It’s between you and God; He knows your capacity. He it is Who created you. Our Lord & Savior will reward you according to what you have done.

    NIV Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

    NIV Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

    And there is NOTHING hidden from God.

    KJV Ecclesiastes 12:
    13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Therefore, since God created us in Christ unto good works, let us strive to do good and overcome evil with good.

    KJV Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

    KJV Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Hence, let us refrain from judging others. There are people who think only Christians will make it to heaven, and frown on non-Christians. What about this one who will ask the Lord this question:

    KJV Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

    The question could only come from one not aware our Lord was crucified! But he will be with the Lord, in fact, he will be asking him that question. How come he will be with Him when He didn’t even know of His dying on the cross? But the Biblical record is clear. His name could not have been blotted from the book of life, explains why he is with the Lord & Him crucified. He was judged as an OVERCOMER. And the Judge of all the earth can never be wrong.

    Remember, God created us all in Christ; one big family. Sadly, different belief systems divided us into different groups each one claiming to be the True Church. The wall of separation Christ brought down was reared up again. And much many more walls this time. In Christianity alone, 33,000 denominations, says the World Chris­t­ian Ency­clo­pe­dia (Bar­rett, Kurian, and John­son; Oxford Uni­ver­sity Press), and still counting?

    Belief systems that teach people are born in sin are the boldest in making the claim that only believers, hence, only Christians can make it to heaven. Do you think there is not a single non-Christian among this group who Jesus Himself called His brethren?

    Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    The immediate context of the verse talks about those whom the righteous have helped: the poor, the stranger, those in prison, the hungering, the thirsting. Those in this needy group, the Savior Himself called “my brethren”. And if brethren, then of the same family: the family or household of God.

    KJV Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God

    Praise God. His creating us in His Son made us all members of the household of God. Let us persevere to overcome evil with good so that our names don’t get blotted out from the book of life. When Christ comes again to reward each one according to what each has done, all whose names remained written in the book of life will be allowed entry into the heavenly portals. All others will have their final portion in the lake of fire.

    KJV Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    KJV Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    NIV Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Samie View Post
    1. Total Empowerment.

    from the very beginning of the inception of the plan for the creation of man, the Creator was fully aware that Adam and all his descendants will fall into sin. He knew full well the dire result that sin will bring to man
    That is supposition that does not match the Bible.
    Originally posted by Samie View Post
    as suggested by Augustine of Hippo
    Augustine of Hippo was wrong about a lot of things (such as Original Sin) and led millions of people astray because they believed his words instead of the Bible.
    Originally posted by Samie View Post
    The fact that people can do the acts of accepting, believing, repenting, etc. simply shows that people can do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. Therefore, they were already in Christ PRIOR to their doing of those acts, otherwise, they could have done NOTHING.
    Not true.
    The fact that people can do SOMETHING shows that God has given the power of free-will choice to mankind.

    Originally posted by Samie View Post
    Whereas Arminianism and Calvinism teach that people start life on earth born in sin, born APART from Christ, we have clearly shown from Scriptures that people start life on earth ALREADY in Christ.
    Three wrongs do not make a right.
    We start life not knowing good from evil.
    We are not born sinners (Original Sin), nor are we born saints (ALREADY in Christ).
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

    Comment


    • #3
      Samie,
      Your post is way too long, as if you are blogging, not fit dialogue. Better shape up!
      So, what?

      believe it!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        That is supposition that does not match the Bible.
        It's God Who said that He declares the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9, 10), NOT me.

        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        Augustine of Hippo was wrong about a lot of things (such as Original Sin) and led millions of people astray because they believed his words instead of the Bible.
        So why did you believe his doctrine that people are born in sin?

        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        Not true.
        The fact that people can do SOMETHING shows that God has given the power of free-will choice to mankind.
        I did not say He did not. You can only exercise FREEWILL if you have the power to do so. And Jesus is THE Only Source of Power (1 Cor 1:24; Matt 28:18). Therefore, in Christ first, before you can exercise freewill.

        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        We are not born sinners (Original Sin), nor are we born saints (ALREADY in Christ).
        We are born already in Christ, because God created us in Him (Eph 2:10) via The One New Man that Christ created in Himself (Eph 2:13-16), hence branches of the True Vine (John 15:1, 2).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
          Samie,
          Your post is way too long, as if you are blogging, not fit dialogue. Better shape up!
          I had to provide the biblical basis and that's what made it long. Sorry. But since it's already posted, please just address the issues brought up in the OP, if you think there is anything biblically untenable in the OP.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Samie View Post
            It's God Who said that He declares the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9, 10), NOT me.
            It is you who doesn't understand what that means nor the context it was said in.

            Originally posted by Samie View Post
            So why did you believe his doctrine that people are born in sin?
            I don't.
            I believe the doctrine of Original Sin and all the doctrines that come from it are abominations.
            I believe that God gave us free will.

            Originally posted by Samie View Post
            I did not say He did not. You can only exercise FREEWILL if you have the power to do so.
            God created every man (and woman) with the power to exercise free will.

            Originally posted by Samie View Post
            And Jesus is THE Only Source of Power (1 Cor 1:24; Matt 28:18). Therefore, in Christ first, before you can exercise freewill.
            You shouldn't be making false statements like that one that are in opposition to what the Bible actually teaches.
            Learn to read what is written.

            _____
            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
              It is you who doesn't understand what that means nor the context it was said in.
              It was God Himself Who said He declares the end from the beginning. You asked me "end of what?, beginning of what?" It's you who place limitations on what God said.

              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
              God created every man (and woman) with the power to exercise free will.
              And that power is in Christ alone. Unless plugged in to Him, one is powerless. Don't claim the power that SOLELY is Christ's.

              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
              You shouldn't be making false statements like that one that are in opposition to what the Bible actually teaches.
              It's actually you are the one quilty of the crime you accuse me of, my brother.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Samie View Post
                It was God Himself Who said He declares the end from the beginning.
                Yes, but you still refuse to accept that it was said in a specific context and was not a general statement.
                Originally posted by Samie View Post
                You asked me "end of what?, beginning of what?" It's you who place limitations on what God said.
                I am not the one that asked that, nor am I the one that is placing limitations on what God is capable of doing.
                Originally posted by Samie View Post
                And that power is in Christ alone. Unless plugged in to Him, one is powerless.
                That is false.
                Every man (and woman) has the power of free-will choice that God gave us when He created us.
                We never lost that power.
                Originally posted by Samie View Post
                Don't claim the power that SOLELY is Christ's.
                I am not claiming Christ's power the way you are doing.
                Jesus was born a man with the exact same power of free-will choice that God has given all of mankind.
                What Jesus did with that power is become obedient unto death on the cross.
                Originally posted by Samie View Post
                It's actually you are the one quilty of the crime you accuse me of, my brother.
                If you think we have to be in Christ before we have the power to choose to believe in Jesus, then you understand anything.

                Learn to read what is written.

                _____
                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  Yes, but you still refuse to accept that it was said in a specific context and was not a general statement.
                  The context is God saying He is God and that He declares the end from the beginning. Read it. v9

                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  I am not the one that asked that, nor am I the one that is placing limitations on what God is capable of doing.
                  You are limiting God by placing His general statement of Him being God and that His declaring the end from the beginning is for you limited to a specific context, because you do not believe that God knows Adam and all of His descendants will fall into sin PRIOR to His act of creating them.

                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  Every man (and woman) has the power of free-will choice that God gave us when He created us.
                  We never lost that power.
                  Do not claim the power that is Christ's alone. Whatever power you have is derived from Christ Who is the only source of power.

                  Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
                  1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

                  The power you use in exercising freewill is Christ's power. Do not claim it.

                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  I am not claiming Christ's power the way you are doing.
                  You just claimed it by saying God gave you that power. Jesus said all power in heaven and in earth was given him. So what power was given to you when all power was given Christ?

                  Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                  If you think we have to be in Christ before we have the power to choose to believe in Jesus, then you understand anything.
                  It was Christ Who said that apart from Him man can do NOTHING (John 15:5). You don't believe His words. You insist that while not in Him you can do SOMETHING.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Samie View Post
                    The context is God saying He is God and that He declares the end from the beginning. Read it. v9
                    No, that is merely repeating the statements while completely ignoring the context in which the statements are made.

                    Originally posted by Samie View Post
                    You are limiting God by placing His general statement of Him being God and that His declaring the end from the beginning is for you limited to a specific context, because you do not believe that God knows Adam and all of His descendants will fall into sin PRIOR to His act of creating them.
                    You seem to switch between God declaring the end from the beginning and a belief that God knows the end before the beginning.
                    There is a difference between what God declared and what you are attributing to Him.

                    Originally posted by Samie View Post
                    Whatever power you have is derived from Christ Who is the only source of power.
                    False.
                    The power to choose between righteousness and wickedness is known as free-will and is the power that God gave all mankind, even Adam before he sinned.

                    Originally posted by Samie View Post
                    Jesus said all power in heaven and in earth was given him. So what power was given to you when all power was given Christ?
                    I was born with the power to choose between righteousness and wickedness, which is the power of free-will that God gave all mankind even before God gave Jesus all the other power He gave Him.

                    Deuteronomy 30:19
                    19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:



                    If you are claiming that you do not have the ability to choose between righteousness and wickedness, then you are accusing God of being unjust in His judgment that the righteous enter into eternal life and the wicked are destroyed in the lake of fire.
                    Learn to read what is written.

                    _____
                    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Samie View Post
                      It's God Who said that He declares the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9, 10), NOT me.
                      ...but your interpretation of what HE meant is an obvious blasphemy because it implies that HE knew who would be damned before HE created them but created them anyway! He does all for HIS pleasure but takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked so how could HE created them to die eternally?

                      HE created us upright, ie not liable to death but we sought it out with many schemes by our free will! Eccl.7:29 "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions".
                      I Champion GOD’s holiness:
                      - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                      - All evil is creature-created.

                      I Champion Our Free will:
                      - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        I don't.
                        I believe the doctrine of Original Sin and all the doctrines that come from it are abominations.
                        I believe that God gave us free will.
                        AMEN!!

                        We have our differences but this I believe with all my heart. You find it acceptable that we are created on earth so we must find our free will here BUT I find that the Book says we do no have a free will here so we must have had it pre-earthly life in a state of innocence because we are born sinful.
                        I Champion GOD’s holiness:
                        - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                        - All evil is creature-created.

                        I Champion Our Free will:
                        - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Samie View Post
                          And that power is in Christ alone. Unless plugged in to Him, one is powerless. Don't claim the power that SOLELY is Christ's.
                          What does this even mean? Powerless to do what? We live and move and breathe in Him but the eternally sinful also live and move and breathe without Him. Was Satan IN HIM using HIS POWER when he chose to rebel? If YES then you blaspheme HIS good Name as HE is NOT a house divided! Your rationale does not fit the reality GOD revealed to us.
                          I Champion GOD’s holiness:
                          - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                          - All evil is creature-created.

                          I Champion Our Free will:
                          - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Samie View Post
                            It was God Himself Who said He declares the end from the beginning. You asked me "end of what?, beginning of what?" It's you who place limitations on what God said.
                            Can GOD lie? No HE cannot.
                            Can GOD create that which HE hates ? No HE cannot.
                            Can GOD go against HIS own nature? No HE cannot.

                            GOD has HIS own limits and you blaspheme HIM by claiming HE can and did create that which HE hates.

                            I Champion GOD’s holiness:
                            - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                            - All evil is creature-created.

                            I Champion Our Free will:
                            - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

                            Comment

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