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  • #76
    Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
    so you believe the law of moses offers life?
    I see Christ in the law.
    That's who the law pointed to.
    Christ offers life.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

    Comment


    • #77
      Leviticus 18:5 'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.

      The Torah may have a different verse, but I think Paul was at least referring to Torah instruction.

      Romans 7:10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
        Originally posted by tambora View Post
        Wrong.
        Galatians 3
        (17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
        When the law came, it had no bearing on the promise that had already come.

        Now, go read the verse you quoted in CONTEXT.
        Speak to yourself.

        The promise was given to Abraham 430 years before the law was given.
        When the law was given, it could not disannul the promise.
        The law had no bearing on the promise.

        We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
        They already know monsters exist.
        We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
          yet, in the new covenant, we receive it in our lifetime, when we repent and believe..salvation is given.
          Yep, salvation is given even though we still look forward to the resurrection (which is included with our salvation).

          David looked forward to the day when all would come to pass.
          We look forward to the day when all will come to pass.


          I wonder if you even know what the new covenant is.
          Wonder for yourself.

          We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
          They already know monsters exist.
          We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by tambora View Post
            I see Christ in the law.
            That's who the law pointed to.
            Christ offers life.
            AMEN

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by amosman View Post
              AMEN
              I'll second that AMEN!

              We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
              They already know monsters exist.
              We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

              Comment


              • #82
                and, you are seconding, a LIE.

                Quote:
                Originally Posted by graceandpeace
                so you believe the law of moses offers life?
                Tam:

                I see Christ in the law.
                That's who the law pointed to.
                Christ offers life.

                My question was did the law of moses offer life.

                The law of moses never offered life..it only POINTED TO WHAT COULD, Jesus.

                Of itself/ the law only condemns.

                That was it's ONLY purpose...we see how suptle lies are..in your post.

                The law of moses NEVER offered life..it is the MINISTRATION OF DEATH...read the new covenant, that explains these things.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by amosman View Post
                  AMEN
                  Do you know the difference between the law being a shadow of good things to come and not the REALITY itself?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Untellectual View Post
                    Leviticus 18:5 'So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments, by which a man may live if he does them; I am the LORD.

                    The Torah may have a different verse, but I think Paul was at least referring to Torah instruction.

                    Romans 7:10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;
                    Did any man ever keep it perfectly? (the law of moses), or did some keep it by faith where sin was not imputed, by looking forward to a new day; where salvation would be granted through a new covenant?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by tambora View Post
                      Speak to yourself.

                      The promise was given to Abraham 430 years before the law was given.
                      When the law was given, it could not disannul the promise.
                      The law had no bearing on the promise.
                      I agree..that was not my disagreement; it had no bearing, because it condemned man, so that God could then make a NEW covenant...which is THE PROMISE ITSELF...the law is good ONLY when used lawfully, you misuse it, like most on this board.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by graceandpeace
                        yet, in the new covenant, we receive it in our lifetime, when we repent and believe..salvation is given.
                        Tam:


                        Yep, salvation is given even though we still look forward to the resurrection (which is included with our salvation).

                        David looked forward to the day when all would come to pass.
                        We look forward to the day when all will come to pass.
                        Salvation has come to pass, through a new and LIVING way. It was not available until the new covenant, as written.

                        We do not await salvation...the promise was salvation; not the resurrection.

                        Where do you come up with such stuff?

                        Quote:
                        I wonder if you even know what the new covenant is.
                        Tam:

                        Wonder for yourself.
                        I dont have to wonder, I know what it is...I got down on my knees and sought God for the answer.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by tambora View Post
                          I see Christ in the law.
                          That's who the law pointed to.
                          Christ offers life.
                          This Romans passage is a good summary.

                          Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
                          Rom 5:7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
                          Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
                          Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
                          Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
                          Rom 5:11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
                          Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
                          Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
                          Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
                          Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
                          Rom 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
                          Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
                          Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
                          Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. This is what I believe and it took me awhile to get here.

                          I believe that, as Paul states, sin could not be imputed without the Law. Christ fulfilled the Law and thus sin is imputed to Him. And because of His obedience His righteousness has been imputed to us!

                          What is this gift spoken of in the above passage? That is God's grace!

                          Christ came as God and He also came as man. He lived as a man but remained sinless. Everything about His life and His death were according to the Law. Because both His life and His death were perfect, He fulfilled the Law as no other could do. If not then we would have to say that Christ's own life resulted in unmerited favor shown to Him by the Father. I think we all know that is not true. This is what I believe is the fallacy about Covenant Theology which claims that God has always had a program of Grace in place.

                          I see so many Christians - like myself for so many years - struggling with this Law and Grace issue. The Law was not designed for pleasure but it was a disciplinarian. A price had to be paid for sins and these sins had to be paid for over and over again by means of animal sacrifices and rituals performed by the priests. We have now a Great High Priest over the Body of Christ in our Lord Jesus Christ. He is our mediator. He proclaims our righteousness and our innocence. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:14).
                          Law makes a demand. Grace makes a provision.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                            Did any man ever keep it perfectly? (the law of moses),
                            Yes.
                            or did some keep it by faith where sin was not imputed,
                            ?
                            by looking forward to a new day; where salvation would be granted through a new covenant?
                            ? There was salvation before the new covenant, I believe.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                              Do you know the difference between the law being a shadow of good things to come and not the REALITY itself?
                              If you stand in front of me, your shadow does not disappear....

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Untellectual View Post
                                Yes.?? There was salvation before the new covenant, I believe.
                                no there was not.

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