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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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  • #46
    No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
    So, if you would say that you have "come to Christ", then you'd say that you've "come to Christ" against your will--that you've "come to Christ" unwillingly?
    What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

    MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post

      So, if you would say that you have "come to Christ", then you'd say that you've "come to Christ" against your will--that you've "come to Christ" unwillingly?

      God's People shall be willing in the day of His Power Ps. 110:3.

      Dan. 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
      My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
      when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Nanja View Post


        God's People shall be willing in the day of His Power Ps. 110:3.

        Dan. 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
        Is that a Yes to the question I asked, or is it a No to the question I asked:


        So, if you would say that you have "come to Christ", then you'd say that you've "come to Christ" against your will--that you've "come to Christ" unwillingly? Yes or No?

        What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

        MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post

          Is that a Yes to the question I asked, or is it a No to the question I asked:


          So, if you would say that you have "come to Christ", then you'd say that you've "come to Christ" against your will--that you've "come to Christ" unwillingly? Yes or No?
          I came to Christ willingly because of His Power ! Praise the Lord !

          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

          Comment


          • #50
            Thread title:


            No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
            Originally posted by Nanja View Post

            I came to Christ willingly because of His Power ! Praise the Lord !
            Thanks, Nanja, for answering the question I asked.

            So, you "came to Christ" by your will, rather than against your will.

            Now, your will--by which you say you "came to Christ"--was it free when you "came to Christ", or was it not free when you "came to Christ"?
            What evidence do you have to support your claim that what you call "evidence" is evidence?

            MAGA (Masking America's Gullible Apes)

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
              Thread title:






              Thanks, Nanja, for answering the question I asked.

              So, you "came to Christ" by your will, rather than against your will.

              Now, your will--by which you say you "came to Christ"--was it free when you "came to Christ", or was it not free when you "came to Christ"?

              I'll gladly take God's Will over my will any day !

              My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
              when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                Jn 6:44

                44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

                No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

                It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65


                64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

                65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


                What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

                40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

                Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

                Ps 110:3


                3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

                If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !
                I don't even come close to understanding your argument. Your initial text says that no one can come to God except as they are drawn to God. How does that destroy our power of choice? I married my wife because I was drawn to her. Does that mean I lost all capability of making a choice? Of course not. I made the choice to allow myself to be drawn.

                Our relationship with God works the same way. He extends His love to us and we are attracted by the love and the goodness of God. That doesn't destroy anyone's power of choice. God's love influences us. It doesn't destroy our power of choice. His influence on us enables us to choose Him because of what we see in Him. I chose to follow God because of the love of justice, His innate goodness to us, and the example of Jesus showing us what love really means. That didn't destroy my power of choice. Millions of other people see those same things and still reject the love of God.

                I knew a guy back in the 1970s who was an extremely wild party animal. He had done some very strange, destructive, things during his lifetime. I ran into him in a bar one night. I was sitting at the bar and talking to the bartender when she had the time, and he walked up, sat down and struck up a conversation with me. He said something to me that shocked me. He asked me what I was doing in a bar drinking. He said I belong in this bar but you don't. You know God, so what are you doing here? Now how he knew this was beyond me as I had never talked to him about spiritual things. Then he went on to speak about his own spiritual condition and how he knew God was very good and very loving, but he said it just wasn't for him. He didn't want that in his life but that he saw that desire in me to have a relationship with God. We talked for a while and then went our separate ways. That was the last time I ever spoke to him. He died in a house fire a few months later and witnesses said he was up and walking around inside the house but made no move to leave. It was like he chose to die rather than live.

                It's all about choices. God never destroys our power to choose. It is He that gives us that power, and gives us the power to choose Him over our fallen natures. In other words, God insures that we are able to choose between good and evil, hate and love, righteousness and unrighteousness. He does that because of His love. It's the devil who is the manipulator, the one who loves to control us and keep us from making choices. That is so obvious from scripture I don't know how anyone can miss it. Look at Jesus' interactions with demon possessed people. They couldn't make a choice on their own. He had to free them from the power of the devil before they could make a choice. The devil uses his power to control. God uses His power to give us liberty.
                “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                “One and God make a majority.”
                ― Frederick Douglass

                Comment


                • #53
                  ffree

                  I don't even come close to understanding your argument.
                  At least you are honest. But understanding an argument is crucial in discussing it !
                  "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                  preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                  called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                  a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                  Charles Spurgeon !

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                    The only way one can come to Christ is through a freewill choice. God will not force Himself on any one.

                    John 3:16 NASB
                    ​​​​​16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [a]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
                    Exactly, and great scripture to prove it.
                    The Calvinists and Lutherans teach that God makes the 'whomever' to believe without their wanting or knowing what is going on. There is no such thing in the Bible that says God saves unbelievers; but the Bible does say that we have to believe first in order to be saved.

                    Scripture after scripture says we have to believe to get saved, and nowhere do any scriptures say no one can believe on their own, or that no one can believe without God causing them to believe supernaturally.

                    John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
                    Oh how I love the Word of God!

                    Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by God's Truth View Post

                      Exactly, and great scripture to prove it.
                      The Calvinists and Lutherans teach that God makes the 'whomever' to believe without their wanting or knowing what is going on. There is no such thing in the Bible that says God saves unbelievers; but the Bible does say that we have to believe first in order to be saved.

                      Scripture after scripture says we have to believe to get saved, and nowhere do any scriptures say no one can believe on their own, or that no one can believe without God causes them to believe.

                      John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
                      What you're saying here is correct. The Bible tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God. What those who believe in strict determinism teach is that God saves without faith for, in their philosophy, He chooses those who without any display of faith on their part are going to be saved , and makes it impossible for them not to follow Him. And at the same time determines also who will be lost. That is the complete obliteration of faith as the Biblical requirement of faith for salvation.
                      “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                      ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                      “One and God make a majority.”
                      ― Frederick Douglass

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Hebrews 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.


                        It isn't that they weren't able to enter because God did not save them first by making them believe. They weren't able to enter because they did not believe, period. We should not add scripture that isn't there.


                        Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

                        Nowhere does that scripture really mean, "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God might decide to make them believe".
                        Oh how I love the Word of God!

                        Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                          ffree



                          At least you are honest. But understanding an argument is crucial in discussing it !
                          I probably misstated my thought. I don't understand how anyone can come to the conclusion you have come to for your conclusion is not contained in the reading of the text or in it's context. It has to be read into the text. In other words, it is a predetermined conclusion inserted into the text because of the desired result on the part of the reader. It isn't the Bible interpreting itself. It's the human theology interpreting the Bible. That's not a good thing.
                          “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                          ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                          “One and God make a majority.”
                          ― Frederick Douglass

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                            What you're saying here is correct. The Bible tells us that without faith it is impossible to please God. What those who believe in strict determinism teach is that God saves without faith for, in their philosophy, He chooses those who without any display of faith on their part are going to be saved , and makes it impossible for them not to follow Him. And at the same time determines also who will be lost. That is the complete obliteration of faith as the Biblical requirement of faith for salvation.
                            Exactly, well put.
                            It is a complete obliteration of faith as the Biblical requirement for faith for salvation. Amen.
                            Oh how I love the Word of God!

                            Don't just hear the word and believe it---do it.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                              I probably misstated my thought. I don't understand how anyone can come to the conclusion you have come to for your conclusion is not contained in the reading of the text or in it's context. It has to be read into the text. In other words, it is a predetermined conclusion inserted into the text because of the desired result on the part of the reader. It isn't the Bible interpreting itself. It's the human theology interpreting the Bible. That's not a good thing.
                              Maybe I see things in the text you dont. I surely cant help that.
                              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                              Charles Spurgeon !

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                                Hebrews 3:19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.


                                It isn't that they weren't able to enter because God did not save them first by making them believe. They weren't able to enter because they did not believe, period. We should not add scripture that isn't there.


                                Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

                                Nowhere does that scripture really mean, "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God might decide to make them believe".
                                Yes God is able to graff them in not man freewill. Alse all men naturally are imprisoned into unbelief Rom 11:32

                                32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
                                "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                                preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                                called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                                a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                                Charles Spurgeon !

                                Comment

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