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THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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  • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    In what WAY does it do so?
    Romans 2: 29. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

    You can't earn it at a university it has to be approved from heaven. [emoji91]
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by k0de View Post
      Romans 2: 29. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God.

      You can't earn it at a university it has to be approved from heaven. [emoji91]
      You've missed the point.

      Paul is talking about believing Israelites there. That is the context of that verse.
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        You've missed the point.

        Paul is talking about believing Israelites there. That is the context of that verse.
        Looking at it in that perspective I have to agree. Not going to get into it, but that verse is open for debate. But thank you by explaining and sharing your point of view.
        Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
          You've missed the point.

          Paul is talking about believing Israelites there. That is the context of that verse.
          False. Paul is speaking about believing jew or gentile there.

          Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

          Charles Spurgeon !

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bibleverse2 View Post
            Note that the body of Christ is the Church (Colossians 1:18). And the body of Christ will be in the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For there are no believers in Jesus Christ outside of the body (Ephesians 4:4-6), and there will be believers in Jesus Christ in the Tribulation (Revelation 14:12).

            Hello

            It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul



            Note that it is, for just as all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus Christ (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish Christians remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile Christians have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) so that they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This does not mean that a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile Christian becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile Christians, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).



            Note that we can lose salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29), because whereas we have been initially justified without the law and works (Romans 4:1-5), our ultimate salvation will depend on our works (Romans 2:6-8).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bibleverse2 View Post
              Note that the body of Christ is the Church (Colossians 1:18). And the body of Christ will be in the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For there are no believers in Jesus Christ outside of the body (Ephesians 4:4-6), and there will be believers in Jesus Christ in the Tribulation (Revelation 14:12).



              Note that it is, for just as all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus Christ (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish Christians remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile Christians have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) so that they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This does not mean that a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile Christian becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile Christians, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).



              Note that we can lose salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29), because whereas we have been initially justified without the law and works (Romans 4:1-5), our ultimate salvation will depend on our works (Romans 2:6-8).
              Hello

              It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul

              Romans 2:6-8 states how God will judge but, there is none righteous that can meet this.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DougE View Post
                Hello
                Romans 2:29 defines a Jew

                All Israel will be saved Romans 11:26
                I agree with your definition. I would also suggest more of Romans tells us the same.

                9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
                The physical descendants are not true Israel.

                9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
                This is how ALL Israel will be saved. It's not the physical children but the children of promise that are truly Israel.

                11:4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
                In the past God has weeded out those who are not truly His and that is what He has done now. Jesus spoke/speaks for God. Those who believed His son are truly His people.




                Paul tells us we have been circumcised:
                Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
                Also we are descendants of Abraham:
                Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

                If that doesn't mean we are spiritual Israel, then why not?
                Wretched man that I am.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                  Saying it doesn't make it so.
                  The evidence is in scripture.

                  Gal 3:28KJV
                  Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

                  It is true that Trump does not fit modern Republican principles, but that is because modern Republican principles have strayed far from conservatism. genuineoriginal

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DougE View Post

                    It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul
                    Jhn 5:23KJV, Jhn 17:23KJV, Jhn 17:21KJV, Jhn 17:3KJV, Jhn 4:23KJV,
                    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

                    It is true that Trump does not fit modern Republican principles, but that is because modern Republican principles have strayed far from conservatism. genuineoriginal

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                      I agree with your definition. I would also suggest more of Romans tells us the same.
                      I think that you only think that he agrees with you in your understanding of Ro 2:20.
                      A common misconception is that Paul is saying that believing gentiles are now Jews.
                      He's not saying that at all. Gentiles never become Jews except by prosetylizing under the former dispensation and gentiles are not 'the new Israel'.
                      Paul is only saying that a true Jew is a believing ethnic Jew and not just one who is born a Jew.

                      9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
                      The physical descendants are not true Israel.
                      Once again a common misconception.
                      Paul is not saying that believing gentiles are now Israel.
                      He is only saying that believing Israelites are the true Israel and not just by being physical descendants.
                      The physical descendants were true Israel if they believed that Jesus of Nazareth was their prophesied Messiah.

                      9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
                      This is how ALL Israel will be saved. It's not the physical children but the children of promise that are truly Israel.
                      Once again, Paul is not discounting the physical, but is saying that true Israel is both by physicality and with faith in Messiah.


                      11:4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
                      The 'remnant' is of physical Israel... believers of physical Israel.

                      In the past God has weeded out those who are not truly His and that is what He has done now. Jesus spoke/speaks for God. Those who believed His son are truly His people.
                      True, He has, but still in Ro 9,10 and 11 Paul is talking about his physical brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh:

                      Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
                      Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
                      Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


                      Paul tells us we have been circumcised:
                      Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
                      Also we are descendants of Abraham:
                      Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

                      If that doesn't mean we are spiritual Israel, then why not?
                      Abraham is/was not Israel.
                      Gentile believers today are spiritual offspring of Abraham through faith, not the physical offspring.

                      In Galatians, Paul is giving assurance to believing gentiles that they have salvation by faith and are Abraham's offspring directly through Abraham's singular seed, against the Judaizer's insistence that these gentiles must become part of Abraham's multiplied physical seed through physical circumcision.
                      It doesn't mean that these believing gentiles become spiritual Jews, the new Israel or spiritual Israel. They simply become members of the Body of Christ.
                      There is simply no justification for changing Biblical definitions of terms such as Jew, Israel, David's throne, Zion, Gospel of the Kingdom, etc,.

                      Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
                      Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


                      Ro 11:26,27 is not talking about the Church the Body of Christ but is speaking of the salvation of the believing remnant of physical Israel at Christ's second coming to earth, according to prophecy.
                      Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                      Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by steko View Post
                        Paul is only saying that a true Jew is a believing ethnic Jew and not just one who is born a Jew.
                        I didn’t realize that is how others were understanding it. Thanks.

                        To help me understand what you're saying. Do you see 4 different groups? 1) Physical Jews that don’t believe in Jesus. 2) Physical Jews that do believe in Jesus. 3) Believing Gentiles 4) Unbelieving Gentiles

                        It’s safe to say group 4 is lost. Where do you place the other 3? As in who is in the BOC and who is not? What is the fate of group 1?
                        Wretched man that I am.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DougE View Post
                          Hello

                          It is only known that the church is the body of Christ by Paul's epistles; this can not be found before Paul
                          Based on your comment how do you see this?

                          1 Cor. 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

                          The Corinthians were converted by different men. When Paul writes to them, is he only addressing those he converted as the BOC? In what classification do you place those who were converted by the other men?
                          Wretched man that I am.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                            I didn’t realize that is how others were understanding it. Thanks.

                            To help me understand what you're saying. Do you see 4 different groups? 1) Physical Jews that don’t believe in Jesus. 2) Physical Jews that do believe in Jesus. 3) Believing Gentiles 4) Unbelieving Gentiles
                            Prior to the dispensation where there is no distinction between Israel and the rest of the world... yes.

                            Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                            It’s safe to say group 4 is lost.
                            Group 1 is just as lost.

                            Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                            Where do you place the other 3? As in who is in the BOC and who is not? What is the fate of group 1?
                            Group 2 will inherit the earth when they are resurrected into the kingdom of heaven.
                            Last edited by Right Divider; June 23, 2019, 08:24 AM.
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                              Prior to the dispensation where there is no distinction between Israel and the rest of the world... yes.


                              Group 2 is just as lost.


                              Group 1 will inherit the earth when they are resurrected into the kingdom of heaven.
                              I think you're confusing 1 and 2...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                                I think you're confusing 1 and 2...
                                Thanks for the catch... fixed.
                                All of my ancestors are human.
                                Originally posted by Squeaky
                                That explains why your an idiot.
                                Originally posted by God's Truth
                                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                                Comment

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