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  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    It's not really even a debate...
    sure it is

    ... we have light coming from stars...

    how do we know how far away those stars are?

    .. and we know how fast light travels.
    and how do we know that?

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    but that is a fact, the universe is 13.7 billion years old,
    Wrong. It's a theory based on blind faith.

    and I am preacher of over 30 years who has a blog on this subject,
    No one cares.

    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    It's not really even a debate, we have light coming from stars, and we know how fast light travels.
    God said He stretched out the heavens.

    Which could mean that God pulled the light from the stars to the earth faster than light normally travels.

    Which means your claim is moot.

    You young earth brothers have to change the Laws of Nature God gave us.
    No, we don't. We simply let the Bible say what it says.

    ...that doesn't work with me brother, I can't go down that road. God Bless, we can't all agree on all things, that is what makes us all unique.

    Leave a comment:


  • chair
    replied
    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    Correct, but you can't look in the wrong time-frame and find the evidence. Ramses II was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus, so looking in that time period will yield no information about the Exodus. It seems Dedumose II was the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Looking in the right time period is a must when one is using archaeology.
    In a survey of where nomads have been, most finds aren't buried in layers, like in a city. You just walk slowly over the entire area, looking for pottery shards and the like. You don't look in a particular period.

    Trying to match the Exodus to the Egyptian historical record is an interesting exercise, but one which doesn't appeal to me much. I am Jewish, and view the Exodus story in the Bible as our ancient tradition. I don't need to "prove" it to myself or to anybody else.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rondonmonson
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    no, not a fact


    a theory, based on extrapolations and interpretations of existing phenomena
    It's not really even a debate, we have light coming from stars, and we know how fast light travels. You young earth brothers have to change the Laws of Nature God gave us....that doesn't work with me brother, I can't go down that road. God Bless, we can't all agree on all things, that is what makes us all unique.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rondonmonson
    replied
    Originally posted by chair View Post
    This can be done by means of an archaeological survey of the area. Even ancient nomads leave traces- and one should realize that these "nomads" did not move around every day, but stayed in some of the encampments for quite a while.

    I am familiar with one survey of this type, done in Israel by Adam Zertal's group. Adam has since died, but as far as I know, the group is continuing with his work. They have identified many sites associated with early Israelite settlements. There are dating methods based on pottery types, and even the occasional Egyptian scarab. Adam, by the way, was convinced of the historicity of the Israelite settlement of Canaan in the 12th century BC, but equally convinced that the numbers reported in Exodus were not realistic. The promised land could not support that many people, and as a result of the survey and excavations, once can estimate how many people lived in the area at the time. About an order of magnitude less than what Exodus claims.

    We are used to a world where tens of millions live in single cities, and it is hard for us to imagine a world where an important city might have 5,000 or 10,000 people in it.

    Chair
    Correct, but you can't look in the wrong time-frame and find the evidence. Ramses II was not the Pharaoh of the Exodus, so looking in that time period will yield no information about the Exodus. It seems Dedumose II was the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Looking in the right time period is a must when one is using archaeology.

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by Rondonmonson View Post
    .... that is a fact, the universe is 13.7 billion years old....

    no, not a fact


    a theory, based on extrapolations and interpretations of existing phenomena

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Originally posted by chair View Post
    ... it is hard for us to imagine a world where an important city might have 5,000 or 10,000 people in it.

    Chair

    I live in northern New York state, adjacent to the largest county in the state (by area), St Lawrence County. The county seat - the place where the county government is sited, is Canton, population 6487.

    So yeah, i get it

    Leave a comment:


  • Rondonmonson
    replied
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Wrong!
    That's not the subject here, so I don't want to walk all over his thread.....but that is a fact, the universe is 13.7 billion years old, and I am preacher of over 30 years who has a blog on this subject, so I am referencing that to show I am not prone to just go with the flow, the Documentary is excellent. Thus there is plenty of "evidence" of the Exodus, but one has to look in the right places of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • chair
    replied
    Originally posted by ok doser View Post
    nope, not using "science fact"

    just asking questions - four of them


    if you were really interested in finding evidence of the exodus (and not just trolling on the internet)

    1. where would you look?
    the sinai peninsula is 23,166 square miles

    2. what would you look for?
    from 3400 +/- years ago, what would you expect to find from a nomadic people traversing the desert, living in tents?


    3. how would you look for it?
    satellite imagery? random excavations? metal detector sweeps?


    4. how would you know you'd found it?
    do you expect to find evidence of human presence with a tag attached that says "property of the jews who left egypt in 1446 BC"?
    This can be done by means of an archaeological survey of the area. Even ancient nomads leave traces- and one should realize that these "nomads" did not move around every day, but stayed in some of the encampments for quite a while.

    I am familiar with one survey of this type, done in Israel by Adam Zertal's group. Adam has since died, but as far as I know, the group is continuing with his work. They have identified many sites associated with early Israelite settlements. There are dating methods based on pottery types, and even the occasional Egyptian scarab. Adam, by the way, was convinced of the historicity of the Israelite settlement of Canaan in the 12th century BC, but equally convinced that the numbers reported in Exodus were not realistic. The promised land could not support that many people, and as a result of the survey and excavations, once can estimate how many people lived in the area at the time. About an order of magnitude less than what Exodus claims.

    We are used to a world where tens of millions live in single cities, and it is hard for us to imagine a world where an important city might have 5,000 or 10,000 people in it.

    Chair

    Leave a comment:


  • ok doser
    replied
    Is that human years or dog years?

    Leave a comment:

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