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  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by serpentdove View Post
    We have put sin behind us (1 Jn 3:9). You have not (2 Pe 2:1, 1 Jn 2:4). We have put our trust in the Lord (Pr 18:10). He will see us all the way home (Jud 1:24a). You have no such guarantee (2 Pe 2:1). You’re on your own at the Great White Throne where you will not stand (Re 20:11-15). We’ll be there with the popcorn (Re 6:10).

    Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

    As a reminder is number 9 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians): category.
    I said
    Well if you think you can put sin behind you Your much worse off than I thought. You do need help.

    Leave a comment:


  • serpentdove
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said Do you even know what sin is?...
    We have put sin behind us (1 Jn 3:9). You have not (2 Pe 2:1, 1 Jn 2:4). We have put our trust in the Lord (Pr 18:10). He will see us all the way home (Jud 1:24a). You have no such guarantee (2 Pe 2:1). You’re on your own at the Great White Throne where you will not stand (Re 20:11-15). We’ll be there with the popcorn (Re 6:10).

    Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

    As a reminder is number 9 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians): category.

    Leave a comment:


  • nikolai_42
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said

    {SNIP}

    ...God saves you from the condemnation you deserve because you are trying to work it out. Until you have worked it out you havent received salvation yet.
    In other words, if you do (X, Y and Z), God will save you. The crux of your salvation, then, is your works. Your effort. You seem to think that because you aren't relying on your "good" works to save you that it isn't works salvation. But it's only a more insidious form of Pharisaism.

    Compare :

    1. ...I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

    Luke 18:11-12

    2. ...I thank thee, that Thou givest me salvation because I am trying to work it out...

    3. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    Luke 18:13

    None of these is the same. And #2 is not of the same character as #3. It's pride in one's efforts mixed with a show of humility. The crux, however, is still on "me". That's what makes it similar to #1. Of the three, only the third one utterly despairs of his own efforts (period).

    EDIT : That one word "because" in your statement has a huge impact.

    Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
    And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
    Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    Colossians 2:18-23
    Last edited by nikolai_42; June 13th, 2019, 01:22 PM. Reason: Added comment and scripture

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by serpentdove View Post
    [Your Saved Statis [sic] Can Be Revoked]

    If you go back out and sin, you were never saved. You were a false convert (1 Jn 2:9).

    As a reminder is number 9 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians): category.

    More
    I said
    Do you even know what sin is?? You sin daily, we all must repent daily. That is why Jesus gave us repentance up to 490 times a day.

    [Mat 18:21–22
    [21] Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
    22] Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

    [Luk 6:37–38
    [37] "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
    [38] "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."

    Leave a comment:


  • serpentdove
    replied
    [Your Saved Statis [sic] Can Be Revoked]

    If you go back out and sin, you were never saved. You were a false convert (1 Jn 2:9).

    As a reminder is number 9 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians): category.

    More

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by Truster View Post
    Hahahahah I give up.
    I said
    lol Or you could give into the Holy Spirit and His teachings. And find true salvation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truster
    replied
    Hahahahah I give up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You quoted Philippians 2:

    Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    Philippians 2:12

    Your own statement is that "Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal". Here Paul says that you are supposed to work out your own "salvation". By your own definition that is eternal. In other words, what God is working in you if you are His (referenced in Philippians 2:13) is "eternal". "Eternal" means more than just never-ending, but for the purposes of your own definition I'm using it in your way.

    So if what is in the believer is eternal, why do you use it to try and prove it to be temporary? The only logical (not scriptural) way I can see for you to do that is to isolate being saved from salvation. And if that's the case, then what is in the believer (per Philippians 2:12) can't be eternal - otherwise you couldn't lose it.

    Which raises the initial point I was trying to make. From your recent post (emphasis mine) :



    Your trust has to be in you - because God will not (according to your own words) provide eternal salvation to you otherwise. Your gospel is that we are saved eternally "...because we are trying...". In other words, the determining factor (because God has done all He can or will) is your own effort. Your works. Therefore, your eternal salvation depends on you. If your trust is in yourself, uncertainty will certainly predominate.

    Not so the scriptures :

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 10:27-29

    But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
    Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

    2 Corinthians 1:9-10

    And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

    2 Corinthians 3:4-5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Titus 3:5-7

    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Philippians 3:8-14

    How can one who has known the goodness of Christ and the power of His resurrection think that anything he does is meritorious? How can the resurrection be anulled simply because we don't try? Ephesians 2 says we are saved unto good works. They are the evidence of faith - not the effort by which we get faith. We persevere because of His work in us - our salvation is evidence of His work, not ratified by ours.
    I said
    You seem to have the right verses with the wrong understanding. Phil 2 is point blank. You cant have salvation until you work it out with God. And that God is working in you to help you work it out. IF you are trying to work it out God saves you from the condemnation you deserve because you are trying to work it out. Until you have worked it out you havent received salvation yet.


    [Phl 2:12–13
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    [13] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.

    Leave a comment:


  • nikolai_42
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.
    You quoted Philippians 2:

    Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    Philippians 2:12

    Your own statement is that "Saved is temporary, salvation is eternal". Here Paul says that you are supposed to work out your own "salvation". By your own definition that is eternal. In other words, what God is working in you if you are His (referenced in Philippians 2:13) is "eternal". "Eternal" means more than just never-ending, but for the purposes of your own definition I'm using it in your way.

    So if what is in the believer is eternal, why do you use it to try and prove it to be temporary? The only logical (not scriptural) way I can see for you to do that is to isolate being saved from salvation. And if that's the case, then what is in the believer (per Philippians 2:12) can't be eternal - otherwise you couldn't lose it.

    Which raises the initial point I was trying to make. From your recent post (emphasis mine) :

    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.
    Your trust has to be in you - because God will not (according to your own words) provide eternal salvation to you otherwise. Your gospel is that we are saved eternally "...because we are trying...". In other words, the determining factor (because God has done all He can or will) is your own effort. Your works. Therefore, your eternal salvation depends on you. If your trust is in yourself, uncertainty will certainly predominate.

    Not so the scriptures :

    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    John 10:27-29

    But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
    Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

    2 Corinthians 1:9-10

    And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
    Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

    2 Corinthians 3:4-5

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Titus 3:5-7

    Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
    And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
    That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
    If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
    Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    Philippians 3:8-14

    How can one who has known the goodness of Christ and the power of His resurrection think that anything he does is meritorious? How can the resurrection be anulled simply because we don't try? Ephesians 2 says we are saved unto good works. They are the evidence of faith - not the effort by which we get faith. We persevere because of His work in us - our salvation is evidence of His work, not ratified by ours.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by Truster View Post
    nikolai_42 asked the question so I'll leave it to him.

    How old are you Squeaky?
    I said
    I will be 72 in a couple of weeks. And I'm a man.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truster
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.
    nikolai_42 asked the question so I'll leave it to him.

    How old are you Squeaky?

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by Truster View Post
    You didn't even address the question let alone give a satisfactory answer.
    I said
    I like the answer. But maybe I misunderstood the question. Refraise it and ask again, and I will try again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Truster
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.
    You didn't even address the question let alone give a satisfactory answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squeaky
    replied
    Originally posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    You have said that salvation is eternal. If we are working out something eternal (though I still don't agree with the distinction you make), then how does this say you can lose it? Especially if it refers to what you say is eternal....
    I said
    We are all sinners. Until the authority of the old testament. Satans throne. When we turn to the Lord Jesus and the new testament, satan will try to stop us. So God saves us from satan because we are trying to work out our salvation in Christ and the new testament. It takes a life time to do this. Now as long as we are working at it we have the right to salvation(being accepted). But we will stumble and make mistakes. Some will be disqualified because they have faith but no works. Some will fall from grace because of the old testament. Some will fall short because they became lukewarm. All the evidence in making it is when you comes to the revelations of Jesus Christ. I'm sharing my revelations that I receive.

    Leave a comment:


  • nikolai_42
    replied
    Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
    I said
    The reason we get saved is so we can work out our salvation.

    [Phl 2:12
    [12] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
    You have said that salvation is eternal. If we are working out something eternal (though I still don't agree with the distinction you make), then how does this say you can lose it? Especially if it refers to what you say is eternal....

    Leave a comment:

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