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Are Gods Elect ever the workers of iniquity ?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    What is the problem?
    Do you believe Christ did not die for all?

    2 Corinthians 5:15
    15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.


    Or do you believe Christ did not die for sinners?

    Romans 5:8
    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    If you want to discuss who i believe Christ died for i have several threads on this forum publicly stating what i believe. I have not been shy about it.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by john w View Post
      No, the biblical definition of hope, is "confident expectation, which the LORD provides, via His book. Saved individuals receive their confident expectation, assurance, that they are saved, from the book, witnessed by the Holy Spirit of God.
      Who knew?

      http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4845421



      I guess with all the unneeded redundancy, you are assuming that you are confident all infants that die in infancy are in heaven. Of course, you continue to evade (!!) making a plain statement to that effect. Get on with it. Don't leave us in suspense.

      That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence.

      So just describing the biblical concept of "hope" is not going to make your case. You will need to combine it with what I have plainly stated, that infants dying in infancy of believing parents is a situation giving parents a real warrant to hope per God's covenantal revelations in Scripture. No such biblical hope exists outside that restriction.

      AMR
      Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



      Do you confess?
      Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
      AMR's Randomata Blog
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      Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
      Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
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      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
        Who knew?

        http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4845421



        I guess with all the unneeded redundancy, you are assuming that you are confident all infants that die in infancy are in heaven. Of course, you continue to evade (!!) making a plain statement to that effect. Get on with it. Don't leave us in suspense.

        That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence.

        So just describing the biblical concept of "hope" is not going to make your case. You will need to combine it with what I have plainly stated, that infants dying in infancy of believing parents is a situation giving parents a real warrant to hope per God's covenantal revelations in Scripture. No such biblical hope exists outside that restriction.

        AMR
        More evasion, create a moving target, change the subject, double speak, fogging the dialogue, sophistry. Non responsive.

        Again-How does a Calvinist know that their "little ones" are not consigned to hell, i.e., that they are not one of "the elect?"


        That is wicked Calvism's "good news."


        And stuff your "That said, you really have no warrant from Scripture to hold that confidence. It is but wishful thinking cloaked in your own confidence," as we see through your droid sound byte, and your "assert/pound the podium/declare 'victory'/return to the 'Reformed SO" con job.
        Saint John W

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by MennoSota View Post
          LOL, a Reformed Christian being called cultish by a Pelagian.

          Now, by 'Reformed', you mean Calvinist or Calvinistic, I take it. So, you've effectively handed us the phrase 'Calvinist Christian'. And, when we remember that you, with Spurgeon, affirm that "Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else," we see you create for yourself more ideological incoherence when you denominate yourself by that phrase. Let's take a look at your latest problem of incoherence.

          You would not use the term 'Reformed Christian', a.k.a. 'Calvinist Christian', unless you think that there are also Christians who are not Calvinist. That's what you are doing by means of that phrase: you're dividing the class of all Christians into two sub-classes: those Christians who are Calvinists, on the one hand, and those Christians who are not Calvinists, on the other.

          Now, by the term 'Christian', you mean a believer of the gospel; in other words, every person who is not a believer of the gospel is a person who is not a Christian. Do you deny this? Yet, according to Spurgeon, and you, Calvinism is the gospel. Now, if Calvinism is the gospel, a Calvinist is a believer of the gospel, and so, the class, Calvinists, must be one and the same as the entire class, Christians. Thus, there can be no non-Calvinists sub-class of the class, Christians.

          It boils down to this: unless you just felt like handing us a redundancy in the phrase 'Reformed Christian', you have effectively divided the class, Christians, into two sub-classes:

          Sub-class 1: Christians who believe the gospel (Calvinists, Reformed), and
          Sub-class 2: Christians who do not believe the gospel (non-Calvinists, non-Reformed).

          Now, assuming you are correct in thinking that Calvinism is the gospel, sub-class 2 is analyzable as follows:

          Christians who do not believe the gospel,
          [Calvinists] who do not believe the gospel,
          [Believers of Calvinism] who do not believe the gospel,
          [Believers of the gospel] who do not believe the gospel.

          So, unless you meant your phrase, 'Reformed Christian', to be taken as a redundancy, you have divided Christians into Calvinists and non-Calvinists, and in doing so, this is the nonsense you have handed us: Believers of the gospel who are not believers of the gospel!
          All my ancestors are human.
          PS: All your ancestors are human.
          PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
            Now, by 'Reformed', you mean Calvinist or Calvinistic, I take it. So, you've effectively handed us the phrase 'Calvinist Christian'. And, when we remember that you, with Spurgeon, affirm that "Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else," we see you create for yourself more ideological incoherence when you denominate yourself by that phrase. Let's take a look at your latest problem of incoherence.

            You would not use the term 'Reformed Christian', a.k.a. 'Calvinist Christian', unless you think that there are also Christians who are not Calvinist. That's what you are doing by means of that phrase: you're dividing the class of all Christians into two sub-classes: those Christians who are Calvinists, on the one hand, and those Christians who are not Calvinists, on the other.

            Now, by the term 'Christian', you mean a believer of the gospel; in other words, every person who is not a believer of the gospel is a person who is not a Christian. Do you deny this? Yet, according to Spurgeon, and you, Calvinism is the gospel. Now, if Calvinism is the gospel, a Calvinist is a believer of the gospel, and so, the class, Calvinists, must be one and the same as the entire class, Christians. Thus, there can be no non-Calvinists sub-class of the class, Christians.

            It boils down to this: unless you just felt like handing us a redundancy in the phrase 'Reformed Christian', you have effectively divided the class, Christians, into two sub-classes:

            Sub-class 1: Christians who believe the gospel (Calvinists, Reformed), and
            Sub-class 2: Christians who do not believe the gospel (non-Calvinists, non-Reformed).

            Now, assuming you are correct in thinking that Calvinism is the gospel, sub-class 2 is analyzable as follows:

            Christians who do not believe the gospel,
            [Calvinists] who do not believe the gospel,
            [Believers of Calvinism] who do not believe the gospel,
            [Believers of the gospel] who do not believe the gospel.

            So, unless you meant your phrase, 'Reformed Christian', to be taken as a redundancy, you have divided Christians into Calvinists and non-Calvinists, and in doing so, this is the nonsense you have handed us: Believers of the gospel who are not believers of the gospel!
            LOL, reading your tortured pretzel is just too funny. I just can't take you seriously. Continue on with your fools game.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by MennoSota View Post
              LOL, reading your tortured pretzel is just too funny. I just can't take you seriously. Continue on with your fools game.
              It's obvious you take yourself even far less seriously, since you have answered not one of my questions, while being transparently dishonest in saying that you answered all of them. But, you and I both know you answered none. And, you and I both understand that you are just too cautious and evasive to answer even simple questions about Calvinism (e.g., Is Calvinism the gospel?), because, as you and I both understand, you must then be engaged in a futile attempt to prop up a self-damning, man-made construct of anti-Biblical irrationality, and you must needs, in doing so, display your irrationality out in the open, making it all the more game for being pelted with the criticism and ridicule it deserves. It's just too much mental effort for you to put out, with no prospect of getting the self-glorifying results you want; it's best for you just to stick to your puerile, bot-like reactions, and hope that you have better luck finding people to wrangle with upon whom your parroted TULIP theology slogans may seem to have some force for a while. And, at the end of the day, be sure to cast upon them irrelevant, if not outright meaningless, names intended pejoratively, like "Pelagian".

              By the way, you refer to yourself by the phrase, "Reformed Christian"; now, since, by this phrase, you make it clear that you think some Christians are not Reformed, are not Calvinists, would you then say that these non-Reformed, non-Calvinist Christians are Pelagian Christians? If not, then who, exactly, would you say constitute the non-Calvinist sub-class of Christians?

              Now, those are a couple more simple questions about your ideology for you to shirk answering, as you and I both know you will do.
              All my ancestors are human.
              PS: All your ancestors are human.
              PPS: To all you cats, dogs, monkeys, and other assorted house pets whose masters are outsourcing the task of TOL post-writing to you (we know who you are )– you may disregard the PS.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by 7djengo7 View Post
                It's obvious you take yourself even far less seriously, since you have answered not one of my questions, while being transparently dishonest in saying that you answered all of them. But, you and I both know you answered none. And, you and I both understand that you are just too cautious and evasive to answer even simple questions about Calvinism (e.g., Is Calvinism the gospel?), because, as you and I both understand, you must then be engaged in a futile attempt to prop up a self-damning, man-made construct of anti-Biblical irrationality, and you must needs, in doing so, display your irrationality out in the open, making it all the more game for being pelted with the criticism and ridicule it deserves. It's just too much mental effort for you to put out, with no prospect of getting the self-glorifying results you want; it's best for you just to stick to your puerile, bot-like reactions, and hope that you have better luck finding people to wrangle with upon whom your parroted TULIP theology slogans may seem to have some force for a while. And, at the end of the day, be sure to cast upon them irrelevant, if not outright meaningless, names intended pejoratively, like "Pelagian".

                By the way, you refer to yourself by the phrase, "Reformed Christian"; now, since, by this phrase, you make it clear that you think some Christians are not Reformed, are not Calvinists, would you then say that these non-Reformed, non-Calvinist Christians are Pelagian Christians? If not, then who, exactly, would you say constitute the non-Calvinist sub-class of Christians?

                Now, those are a couple more simple questions about your ideology for you to shirk answering, as you and I both know you will do.
                Do you want to discuss the OP ?
                "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                Charles Spurgeon !

                Comment


                • #83
                  So I guess I don't get any feedback from my posts at 55 and 56?

                  Yes? No? Maybe?
                  Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

                  It is true that Trump does not fit modern Republican principles, but that is because modern Republican principles have strayed far from conservatism. genuineoriginal

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Gods Elect or Christs Sheep, though they're never the children of the devil, or the children of disobedience, or the workers of iniquity which God hates, yet by nature they have a natural affinity with them, and are considered among them. Thats why Paul says of the elect that by nature they're children of wrath as others. Eph 2:3

                    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

                    Much like the Beloved Prodigal Son, who while away from His Father, He was still a Son, but lived like and among them of the world Lk 15:11-24.
                    Last edited by beloved57; July 17th, 2019, 10:45 AM.
                    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                    Charles Spurgeon !

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                      Gods Elect or Christs Sheep, though they're never the children of the devil, or the children of disobedience, or the workers of iniquity which God hates, yet by nature they have a natural affinity with them, and are considered among them. Thats why Paul says of the elect that by nature they're children of wrath as others. Eph 2:3

                      3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

                      Much like the Beloved Prodigal Son, who while away from His Father, He was still a Son, but lived like and among them of the world Lk 15:11-24.

                      Amen Brother ! Both Christ's Sheep / His Seed Eph. 1:4-5; Is. 53:10, and the seed of the serpent / devil [goats Mat 25:41] were shapen by natural birth in iniquity Ps. 51:5 and by nature children of wrath Eph. 2:3.

                      However, the difference between the two seeds, is that Christ's Seed, God's Elect, shall be Born Again because of His Resurrection from the dead, giving them a New Spiritual Nature that identifies them as God's Children.

                      1 Pet. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
                      My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
                      when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Even though by nature the elect work iniquity like any other sinner, yet they arent the workers of iniquity that God hates Ps 5:5 neither are they tey which Christ says to them I never knew you Matt 7:23

                        23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

                        Now in contrast, the elect or sheep of Christ, Christ knows them and says He specifically laid down His Life for Jn 10: 11-15

                        11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
                        12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
                        13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
                        14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
                        15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Now we know Christ sheep were sinners like they which work iniquity, else why did Christ lay down His Life for them ? Yet as not with the Sheep whom Christ knows [ginōskō] Vs 14 They which work iniquity Christ says He NEVER KNEW[ginōskō] Vs 23

                        This is a notable difference between sinners, some Christ never knew, and some He knew and gave His Life for.
                        "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                        preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                        called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                        a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                        Charles Spurgeon !

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                          Even though by nature the elect work iniquity like any other sinner, yet they arent the workers of iniquity that God hates Ps 5:5 neither are they tey which Christ says to them I never knew you Matt 7:23

                          23 [FONT="]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

                          Now in contrast, the elect or sheep of Christ, Christ knows them and says He specifically laid down His Life for Jn 10: 11-15

                          [/FONT]
                          [FONT="]11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.[/FONT]
                          [FONT="]12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.[/FONT]
                          [FONT="]13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.[/FONT]
                          [FONT="]14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.[/FONT]
                          [FONT="]15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Now we know Christ sheep were sinners like they which work iniquity, else why did Christ lay down His Life for them ? Yet as not with the Sheep whom Christ knows [ginōskō] Vs 14 They which work iniquity Christ says He NEVER KNEW[ginōskō] Vs 23

                          This is a notable difference between sinners, some Christ never knew, and some He knew and gave His Life for.[/FONT]
                          Yes a notable difference indeed !

                          God's elect or sheep of Christ He Knows John 10:14 can never be those who work iniquity that God hates Ps. 5:5, simply because their iniquity was laid upon Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22; Is 53:6 from Everlasting.

                          However, those who are outside of the world [kosmos] of God's Love will permanently remain the objects of His hate, as they were never any Christ Knew Mat. 7:23 and gave His Life for; but are those whom the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38b; cursed goats Mat. 25:41, 46.
                          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
                          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Nanja View Post
                            Yes a notable difference indeed !

                            God's elect or sheep of Christ He Knows John 10:14 can never be those who work iniquity that God hates Ps. 5:5, simply because their iniquity was laid upon Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22; Is 53:6 from Everlasting.

                            However, those who are outside of the world [kosmos] of God's Love will permanently remain the objects of His hate, as they were never any Christ Knew Mat. 7:23 and gave His Life for; but are those whom the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38b; cursed goats Mat. 25:41, 46.
                            So simple. However Sister you are probably the only one on this forum who sees this and by Grace confess it.
                            "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                            preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                            called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                            a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                            Charles Spurgeon !

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                              So simple. However Sister you are probably the only one on this forum who sees this and by Grace confess it.
                              Wait a minute... you forgot to count yourself, my Brother
                              My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
                              when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Figure it out.

                                1 John 1:9 New International Version (NIV)
                                9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
                                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                                Jim Elliot

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