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Is believing/faith a work ?

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  • beloved57
    replied
    Originally posted by Idolater View Post
    Your concern to defend the glory of God comes from a perfect place. But your personal extrapolation of that very holy concern is incorrect. Paul himself contrasts believing and working in Romans 4:5 KJV.
    Yes there's a contrast but believing is still a work.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

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  • Idolater
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    bkarding



    No it doesnt !



    Thats what makes it a work Duh
    Your concern to defend the glory of God comes from a perfect place. But your personal extrapolation of that very holy concern is incorrect. Paul himself contrasts believing and working in Romans 4:5 KJV.

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  • 7djengo7
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Originally posted by bkarding View Post
    Believing is indeed something man does
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Thats what makes it a work Duh

    That's an amazing piece of stupidity you've just handed out. You're saying that to do is always to work. Paul, in Romans 9:10-11 KJV, wrote:

    10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

    11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
    What work(s) do you want to claim Jacob and Esau were doing, in utero? And yet, the children were, indeed doing something: they were being not yet born. And, according to Moses, in Genesis 25:22, they were "struggl[ing] together within [Rebecca]."

    Try to tell us exactly from which passage(s) of Scripture you imagine you have gotten your idea that to DO SOMETHING is always to WORK.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    bkarding



    No it doesnt !



    Thats what makes it a work Duh
    You still try to negate Ephesians 2:8-9. If you believe Scripture faith is not a work'

    Ephesians 2:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV)
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Rethink your theology and believe the Scriptures.

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  • beloved57
    replied
    bkarding

    That's exactly what the verse says!
    No it doesnt !

    Believing is indeed something man does,
    Thats what makes it a work Duh

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  • bkarding
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    That verse doesn't say believing isn't a work. Believing is a action man does.
    That's exactly what the verse says! If we use the language Scripture uses, as I explained above. In the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, believing cannot be a work, or that passage is nonsense! Believing is indeed something man does, but it cannot be a work as far as something we can boast about.

    Indeed, verse 9 makes clear that believing is a "gift"! So yes, it is something we do, but we only believe because God gives us faith.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    That verse doesn't say believing isn't a work. Believing is a action man does.
    Do you believe in faith plus works for salvation?

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  • beloved57
    replied
    Originally posted by bkarding View Post
    Umm... if the verse says we have been saved by grace through faith (and it does), and that we were not saved by works (and it does), then it follows that faith is not a work. Those are positive and negative statements (+ = Saved through faith; - = not saved through works). You can't say both, "You are saved through faith" and "you are not saved by works" if you believe that faith is a work.
    That verse doesn't say believing isn't a work. Believing is a action man does.

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  • bkarding
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !
    Umm... if the verse says we have been saved by grace through faith (and it does), and that we were not saved by works (and it does), then it follows that faith is not a work. Those are positive and negative statements (+ = Saved through faith; - = not saved through works). You can't say both, "You are saved through faith" and "you are not saved by works" if you believe that faith is a work.

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    br



    Believing is not passive, its active !
    You do realize the article was taken from a Calvinistic Ministry?

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  • beloved57
    replied
    br

    Second, faith, by its nature, is passive.
    Believing is not passive, its active !

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  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
    Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !
    Is Faith a Work?
    FROM R.C. Sproul Jr. Sep 12, 2011 Category: Articles

    The Reformation was born out of the biblical conviction that a man is deemed just in the sight of God, forgiven, adopted, not on the basis of his own goodness, but on the basis of the goodness of Christ imputed to him. Not everyone, however, is blessed with this imputation, but only those who trust in that provision, and in that provision alone. The debate at that time, and to this day, has been characterized as faith versus works. Though Rome would not affirm, and indeed rightly condemns crass Pelagianism, the notion that we can earn God’s favor outside His grace, she does see a vital role for our personal righteousness, even while affirming that our righteousness is the result of grace at work in us, with which we must cooperate. In framing the debate as works versus faith, however, some miss the very nature of faith.

    One way to err on faith is in fact to turn it into a “work.” In this error we see “faith” as a substitute for our obedience. This view suggests that in the Garden God required total and complete obedience from us in order for us to be at peace with Him. When that failed, God graciously lowered His standard. Now all that He requires of us is that we trust in Him. The trouble with this view is that it wrongly makes faith the ground of our salvation. We stand before the throne of God and He asks why He should allow us into His kingdom. We boldly reply, “Because of my faith.” God then answers, “Faith? I love faith! People with faith, that’s just the kind of people I want to have around. By all means, come on in.” This error in the end is faith in faith, which faith will surely not save. It makes the cross gratuitous, which is blasphemy.

    A second error turns faith into a work, and therefore rejects it as vital to our salvation. This view rightly recognizes that it is ultimately the finished work of Christ alone that saves. It rightly affirms that a man is justified because his sins were punished at Calvary, and the obedience of Christ is his. This view rightly affirms solus Christus, by Christ alone. In order, however, to fence off the first error, to be certain we don’t look at our faith as meritorious, it denudes faith of its true nature, turning it into bare assent. This view defines saving faith as agreeing to the truthfulness of the gospel message. This error suffers from two key problems. First, in diminishing the nature of saving faith to bare assent it leaves room even for, in principle, the demons. James says even the demons believe, and shudder (2:19). That is, they know God exists, and hate what they know. It is possible to know something and hate what you know. You can know, you can believe, as the devil himself knows and believes, that Jesus died for sinners, and still not have faith.

    The second error here is that it doesn’t solve the problem. If we want to denude faith to be certain it doesn’t turn into a work, how does assent not become a work? Just as with true saving faith I am the one believing, trusting, resting, so even if it is mere assent I am the one assenting. In short, if faith is a work, why isn’t assent a work?

    We avoid both problems when we embrace the wisdom of our fathers, the Westminister Divines. In their Shorter Catechism they ask, “What is faith in Jesus Christ?” and answer, “Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon Him alone for salvation as He is offered to us in the gospel” (question 86). Faith is not a work on two counts. First, it is a gift from God. It is not just received by grace, but is a grace. Faith is something God gives to us. On our own it is not possible, for we are dead in our trespasses and sins. And note that our faith has a specific object- as He is offered to us in the gospel.”

    Second, faith, by its nature, is passive. We rest; we do not work. We receive; we do not earn. There is more to resting than mere assent, but there is not more work. Indeed there is no work at all, just resting and receiving the very ground of our salvation- the work of Christ for us.

    Rest. Receive. And rejoice.

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  • beloved57
    replied
    Originally posted by bkarding View Post
    Faith cannot be a "work," in the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, or Paul's words would be nonsense. Rather, God's grace, our faith, and our salvation are all gifts of God.

    I've discussed this in another forum here.
    Believing is a Work ! That passage doesn't say otherwise !

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  • bkarding
    replied
    Faith cannot be a "work," in the sense of Ephesians 2:8-9, or Paul's words would be nonsense. Rather, God's grace, our faith, and our salvation are all gifts of God.

    I've discussed this in another forum here.

    Leave a comment:


  • beloved57
    replied
    Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    This isn’t even Calvinism. It isn’t Monergism at all. It’s just wrong, as you’ve been clearly and repeatedly shown. It’s not even heresy, it’s so bad. It’s beyond heresy as pure ignorance and error.
    Worthless comments.

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

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