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Is believing/faith a work ?

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  • What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then Hes influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

    Comment


    • Rom 4:4

      Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

      This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !
      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

      Charles Spurgeon !

      Comment


      • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
        What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then Hes influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing !

        Well said. Before a person is born again, his own work of believing is filthy in God's eyes Is. 64:6; nothing he does pleases God Rom. 8:8.

        There is no condition a man can meet to get himself saved.

        For Salvation was specifically promised to those that were given Grace before the World began [Election of Grace].

        2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

        It's these exclusively that are given Faith to Believe on Christ Phil. 1:29; a fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22 in New Birth.


        However all the rest:

        Ps. 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
        My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
        when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

        Comment


        • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
          Rom 4:4

          Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

          This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !

          If Salvation was based on our work of repentance or believing, then God would be indebted to save us.

          But Salvation is by God's discriminating Grace Eph. 2:8-9.


          Rom. 11:5-6

          5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

          6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


          So now, if some outside of the Election of Grace say God's Grace is due them also upon their work of repentance or believing, then it destroys the biblical concept of Grace and makes it a debt owed Rom. 4:4.
          My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
          when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

          Comment


          • If and when someone teaches that salvation/justification is based upon a condition performed by man, lie faith or repentance, water baptism, its synonymous to teaching that they are justified/saved by a law, a work of theirs, so by their merit, which is contrary to grace, Rom 4:4

            4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
            "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
            preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
            called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
            a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

            Charles Spurgeon !

            Comment


            • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
              If and when someone teaches that salvation/justification is based upon a condition performed by man, lie faith or repentance, water baptism, its synonymous to teaching that they are justified/saved by a law, a work of theirs, so by their merit, which is contrary to grace, Rom 4:4

              4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

              Amen Brother !

              If Salvation / Justification was based upon a person's own work of the law, or any good behavior God saw in him, then God would have an obligation to save him.

              However, Salvation is a Gift of God's Grace exclusively to His Election of Grace !

              Rom. 11:5-6

              5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

              Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely [undeservedly] by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
              My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
              when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

              Comment


              • The Bible teaches that works are necessary for salvation. Most Christians don't understand that. And I don't mean works of the Torah, but rather the works that Jesus said must be done, must be done. Sorry all you Faith Alone folks, you are all wrong.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
                  The Bible teaches that works are necessary for salvation. Most Christians don't understand that. And I don't mean works of the Torah, but rather the works that Jesus said must be done, must be done. Sorry all you Faith Alone folks, you are all wrong.
                  no




                  Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
                  Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
                    The Bible teaches that works are necessary for salvation. Most Christians don't understand that. And I don't mean works of the Torah, but rather the works that Jesus said must be done, must be done. Sorry all you Faith Alone folks, you are all wrong.


                    If one is saved it is by grace, alone; through faith, and that not of themselves but it is the gift of God. No one can boast. Works are not a requirement. We work because it is good and God (being in us) makes us want to do good but not because we (of ourselves) are good or even have any goodness. If anyone does anything good it's God in them and not their own goodness but His. Jesus saw that there was nothing good in man. God is in us (if we believe) and He is good. Works aren't required to be saved.
                    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                    Comment


                    • nanja

                      If Salvation / Justification was based upon a person's own work of the law, or any good behavior God saw in him, then God would have an obligation to save him.
                      Exactly, men attempt to make God indebted to their actions, thats contrary to Grace all day long !
                      "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                      preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                      called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                      a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                      Charles Spurgeon !

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                        nanja



                        Exactly, men attempt to make God indebted to their actions, thats contrary to Grace all day long !

                        Sure you right !
                        My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever;
                        when shall I be brought in to see His Face? - Psalm 42:2

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          If one is saved it is by grace, alone; through faith, and that not of themselves but it is the gift of God. No one can boast......
                          So far so good....

                          Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          ....Works are not a requirement......
                          Not true. That last sentence is where you slipped up. There are several places in the NT where Jesus specifically says you must do things to be saved.

                          No boasting, and they are done through faith, and only works prompted by grace, but they must be done all the same

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                            The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

                            See strongs # 2041:

                            1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
                              1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

                            2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind


                            3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

                              A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

                              The mind is :

                              (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

                              Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

                              So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

                              Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


                              Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


                              20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

                              How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

                              So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

                              Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

                              But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.


                            Believing takes work

                            Did God or Moses part the Red Sea?

                            God did, but it did take work for Moses to obey God's instructions. Moses had to raise his staff etc.

                            Exodus 14
                            13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

                            14 The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.

                            15 And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:

                            16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.

                            Unless Moses did as commanded, Moses would not have done the works to let God work.

                            Who did the heavy lifting? God? or Moses?
                            "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

                            "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

                            Pro scripture = Protestant

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
                              So far so good....



                              Not true. That last sentence is where you slipped up. There are several places in the NT where Jesus specifically says you must do things to be saved.

                              No boasting, and they are done through faith, and only works prompted by grace, but they must be done all the same
                              are we made more righteous by works?
                              sorry that's the wrong question



                              Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
                              Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
                              Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

                              I come from the Mid Acts Dispensation view which is what the TOL forum was started for

                              I read and listened to "the Plot" by Bob Enyart which convinced me of the the above Rom 4:3-5


                              the right question is ,what changed with Saul to Paul ?

                              "the Plot" disc one
                              https://kgov.com/bel/20141204

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
                                Not true.
                                Yes, it is true. Jesus said so.

                                He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
                                "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                                If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                                Comment

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