Different Kinds of Law

[Gary K]

Shalom.

I am not a Messianic Jew. I am a Jew. My eating habits are Orthodox. I do not accept all of Messianic doctrine. I do accept Yeshua as the Messiah, so I have some commonality with Christians who accept Jesus as the Christ, or the Messiah.

I want to be able to see all that is referred to as law and understand it every word. Even the word law needs to be understood. I do not have any training on this. People have not taken to talking about the law with me. I do know the Torah and I have read the Torah from the Bema. We should talk about the things that you have said if you want to. I will post as I am able if you take me up on this or if you want to.

Shalom.

Jacob

I'm sorry Jacob. I really thought you were a Messianic Jew because you say you accept Christ as the Messiah. Those people are known, even to themselves, as Messianic Jews. I have never yet met, or seen or heard a Jew, an Orthodox Jew, say they accept Christ as the Messiah. The are still looking for the Messiah.

I guess you also need to explain to me how you came to be an Orthodox Jew but still do not know what the Orthodox Jews believe. Is it that you just consider yourself to be one and yet have never actually studied Judaism with an Orthodox Jew?

 

[Jacob]

I'm sorry Jacob. I really thought you were a Messianic Jew because you say you accept Christ as the Messiah. Those people are known, even to themselves, as Messianic Jews. I have never yet met, or seen or heard a Jew, an Orthodox Jew, say they accept Christ as the Messiah. The are still looking for the Messiah.

I guess you also need to explain to me how you came to be an Orthodox Jew but still do not know what the Orthodox Jews believe. Is it that you just consider yourself to be one and yet have never actually studied Judaism with an Orthodox Jew?

Shalom.

I have attended a Messianic Congregation. My Rabbi is not just or not only a Messianic Rabbi. I have attended Messianic Congregations in the past. I visited a Messianic Congregation recently.

I like the Orthodox for three or four reasons. One. The men read the Torah. Two. We do not mix meat and dairy in the same meal. Three. God's Commandments are emphasized. Four. I believe that the Orthodox stand during the Torah when it is read, which I have liked doing or which I have liked to do.

I met someone once who was Orthodox and believed in Jesus.

I study the Torah daily. I also study the Psalms, Tehillim. I study Hayom Yom. I study Sefer HaMitzvot. These can be found at Chabad.org.

I would love to study with someone.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Gary K]

Shalom.

I have attended a Messianic Congregation. My Rabbi is not just or not only a Messianic Rabbi. I have attended Messianic Congregations in the past. I visited a Messianic Congregation recently.

I like the Orthodox for three or four reasons. One. The men read the Torah. Two. We do not mix meat and dairy in the same meal. Three. God's Commandments are emphasized. Four. I believe that the Orthodox stand during the Torah when it is read, which I have liked doing or which I have liked to do.

I met someone once who was Orthodox and believed in Jesus.

I study the Torah daily. I also study the Psalms, Tehillim. I study Hayom Yom. I study Sefer HaMitzvot. These can be found at Chabad.org.

I would love to study with someone.

Shalom.

Jacob

Jacob,

You still leave me not understanding how you consider yourself an Orthodox Jew and yet seem to have never studied with one. This really puzzles me. How do you become an Orthodox Jew without studying Orthodox Judaism? How do you know you actually believe all they believe if you've not had an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi teach you?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob,

You still leave me not understanding how you consider yourself an Orthodox Jew and yet seem to have never studied with one. This really puzzles me. How do you become an Orthodox Jew without studying Orthodox Judaism? How do you know you actually believe all they believe if you've not had an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi teach you?

Shalom.

That is a great question. I suppose I should look more into it. Everything is positive except for those that say all Orthodox Jews reject Yeshua as the Messiah, or that to be an Orthodox Jew you have to reject Jesus as the Messiah. I do not believe that. But aside from the men taking God ordained responsibility, positions, and roles in regard to single men, husbands married men, reading, learning, and studying the Torah, it is the Orthodox that stand out above and beyond the others. There is the Holy Days. There is the land of Israel. I have never been. But in regard to food I have had the right answers at the right time while still being me to answer in regard to food and what is kosher maintaining not mixing meat and dairy in the same meal, sometimes with the help of a vision in the moment or something that I already know. It is a good experience. I accept sacrifice in the Torah and I have recognized that we have not had a temple. Some suggest that we pray instead.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Gary K]

Shalom.

That is a great question. I suppose I should look more into it. Everything is positive except for those that say all Orthodox Jews reject Yeshua as the Messiah, or that to be an Orthodox Jew you have to reject Jesus as the Messiah. I do not believe that. But aside from the men taking God ordained responsibility, positions, and roles in regard to single men, husbands married men, reading, learning, and studying the Torah, it is the Orthodox that stand out above and beyond the others. There is the Holy Days. There is the land of Israel. I have never been. But in regard to food I have had the right answers at the right time while still being me to answer in regard to food and what is kosher maintaining not mixing meat and dairy in the same meal, sometimes with the help of a vision in the moment or something that I already know. It is a good experience. I accept sacrifice in the Torah and I have recognized that we have not had a temple. Some suggest that we pray instead.

Shalom.

Jacob

Too bad it's a question you seem to have no interest in actually answering.

 

[Jacob]

Too bad it's a question you seem to have no interest in actually answering.

Shalom.

No. It is not that I have no interest. It is that I can only answer from my experience. And I have done so. You are welcome to ask questions. I do not understand your approach here. Are you saying that I have no interest answering rather than no business answering?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Gary K]

Shalom.

No. It is not that I have no interest. It is that I can only answer from my experience. And I have done so. You are welcome to ask questions. I do not understand your approach here. Are you saying that I have no interest answering rather than no business answering?

Shalom.

Jacob

Ok. One last time. Have you, or have you not, studied Orthodox Judaism with an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi with the understanding that you were to become an Orthodox Jew due to your studies with him? I've asked this same basic question several times and you have never given a straight answer to it. If you will not answer it this time consider this conversation at an end, as that is the way I will see it. I am not angry, but neither will I consider wasting my time with someone who will not give a straight answer to a very simple question.

 

[Jacob]

Ok. One last time. Have you, or have you not, studied Orthodox Judaism with an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi with the understanding that you were to become an Orthodox Jew due to your studies with him? I've asked this same basic question several times and you have never given a straight answer to it. If you will not answer it this time consider this conversation at an end, as that is the way I will see it. I am not angry, but neither will I consider wasting my time with someone who will not give a straight answer to a very simple question.

The answer is no. I did not realize what you are asking me. Have you?

 

[Gary K]

The answer is no. I did not realize what you are asking me. Have you?

No. I do not claim to be an Orthodox Jew either. I am, however, familiar with some of their basic beliefs. And it seems that I, who make no claim to be an Orthodox Jew, seem to know more about their beliefs than you do.

Now. Answer this question. How can you say you are an Orthodox Jew when you haven't even studied their beliefs in depth with one of their Rabbis? It looks like you make the claim to be Orthodox on some very shaky grounds.

I'm not trying to pick you apart. I'm just trying to figure out why you make the claims you do. I could no more claim to be an Orthodox Jew than I could claim to be a Southern Baptist, for I have never sat down with an Orthodox rabbi or a Southern Baptist pastor and studied with them long enough to be sure of what they actually believe. I can't figure out why someone would claim to be something they don't really understand. How do you know you're not professing to believe something you actually disagree with as you've never sat down and seriously studied with an Orthodox rabbi? You might find that there are Orthodox beliefs that there is no way you could actually agree with.

 

[Jacob]

No. I do not claim to be an Orthodox Jew either. I am, however, familiar with some of their basic beliefs. And it seems that I, who make no claim to be an Orthodox Jew, seem to know more about their beliefs than you do.

Now. Answer this question. How can you say you are an Orthodox Jew when you haven't even studied their beliefs in depth with one of their Rabbis? It looks like you make the claim to be Orthodox on some very shaky grounds.

I'm not trying to pick you apart. I'm just trying to figure out why you make the claims you do. I could no more claim to be an Orthodox Jew than I could claim to be a Southern Baptist, for I have never sat down with an Orthodox rabbi or a Southern Baptist pastor and studied with them long enough to be sure of what they actually believe. I can't figure out why someone would claim to be something they don't really understand. How do you know you're not professing to believe something you actually disagree with as you've never sat down and seriously studied with an Orthodox rabbi? You might find that there are Orthodox beliefs that there is no way you could actually agree with.

Shalom.

So far everything that I have heard is positive, except that some believe that you need to deny Jesus. I could just be a Jew. But the Orthodox keep God's Commandments, and so do I. I do not know what you mean about sitting down with someone. I believe that the men only should read the Torah, and so far this is Orthodox or nothing.

I have been studying the Torah for a while now. I do not know what you mean by saying that you believe that you know more about Orthodox beliefs than I do. I am not in a competition with you that is for sure. If there were an Orthodox Congregation within walking distance, or if there is, I would want to be there.

Shalom.

Jacob