pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

[tetelestai]

there's verse after verse in the NT that say that followers of Christ should allow children to be murdered?

NO, but there's verse after verse in the NT that tells believers in Christ Jesus not to seek revenge, to love your enemies, not to hate your enemies, and to forgive your enemies.

Again, show us a passage from Jesus or Paul that says to kill or wage war against your enemies?

 

[meshak]

Sorry, just don't see any of Jesus' followers advocating killing.


Well....I believe there were numerous changes from the OC to the NC. Besides dietary, the priesthood, etc., NC believers are told by Jesus and Paul to no longer hate your enemies, but to love your enemies.


That's correct, God didn't change, but the covenants changes drastically. The writer of Hebrews, along with Jeremiah, makes it crystal clear that the OC was obsolete, and was replaced with a greater covenant.



I despise all things Dispensational.




Well...I don't see any teachings from Jesus or Paul (or anyone else) that tell anyone in the Body to kill.

well said, amen

 

[tetelestai]

And what's the deal with Muslims....you hate them or what?

You will never, EVER, convert a Muslim to Christ unless you love them first.

 

[ok doser]

...stopping murderers is justice

... there is verse, after verse in the NT that says the opposite.

...there's verse after verse in the NT that say that followers of Christ should allow children to be murdered?

NO,

oh good - 'cause that's what i'm talking about - stopping murderers

but there's verse after verse in the NT that tells believers in Christ Jesus not to seek revenge

stopping murderers isn't seeking revenge

neither is catching them after they've murdered and holding them to account for their actions

 

[Lon]

I'm not sure how it's not "accusatory". If you're advocating that killing is the only way to stop killing, then of course it's accusatory.

Then no discussion is going to suffice, whether I'm biblical or bring God's thoughts over the matter or not. I'll pass.

 

[drbrumley]

You will never, EVER, convert a Muslim to Christ unless you love them first.

We agree on something

 

[Tambora]

stopping murderers isn't seeking revenge

neither is catching them after they've murdered and holding them to account for their actions

Yeppers.

 

[ok doser]

You will never, EVER, convert a Muslim to Christ unless you love them first.

love them enough to stop them from murdering?

or love them enough to let them continue murdering?

 

[meshak]

love them enough to stop them from murdering?

or love them enough to let them continue murdering?

Jesus and His disciples did not kill anyone for any thing.

Don't you know that Jesus practice was for His followers to follow?

You guys need to take heed of what Jesus says instead of following your own worldly practice.

 

[ok doser]

Jesus and His disciples ...

...walked around Galilee carrying swords

ever wonder why they carried swords?

 

[meshak]

...walked around Galilee carrying swords

ever wonder why they carried swords?

Did they kill anyone?

Nope.

 

[ok doser]

Luke 22:35-38: Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. For it is written: ‘he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied.

now let's run it through the meeshackles translator:

Luke 22:35-38: Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. For it is written: ‘he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied, "for cutting bagels and spreading cream cheese on them."

 

[ok doser]

Did they kill anyone?

Nope.

so why were they carrying swords?

just for the exercise?

 

[drbrumley]

The only proper role of violence is to defend person and property against violence, that any use of violence that goes beyond such just defense is itself aggressive, unjust, and criminal.

That's what I believe.

But what you guys are saying is just let them rape, steal, murder, pillage etc...and we shouldn't stop em.

That's plain stupidity.

 

[drbrumley]

so why were they carrying swords?

just for the exercise?

Let me help her out....to defend themselves.. :idea:

 

[meshak]

so why were they carrying swords?

just for the exercise?

it could be for hunting the animal.

There is no evidence that Jesus and His disciples killed anyone.

Why do you try to read the Bible against Jesus' teaching?

 

[drbrumley]

it could be for hunting the animal.

Wow

There is no evidence that Jesus and His disciples killed anyone.

You seriously cannot be this dense.
People carry guns all the time and don't kill anyone either. Sheesh!!

 

[Lon]

I am bowing out, but I think some of this can stand with but another post so I'll leave after this:

Sorry, just don't see any of Jesus' followers advocating killing.

It isn't our primary concern. Protect, however, means to protect. Standing by while evil is done? The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell Peter his sword swing was ungodly. He and the rest of the disciples were called to be Apostles. Of course none of them would have had instructions about the concerns of this world. 1 Corinthians 7 says that I have specific duties as a father and husband and that their care is my concern. I cannot trade places with a single man who does not have that directive.

Well....I believe there were numerous changes from the OC to the NC. Besides dietary, the priesthood, etc., NC believers are told by Jesus and Paul to no longer hate your enemies, but to love your enemies.

Nope. The only thing the Jews were told to do, was to not do blood sacrifice for sin. All other commands they were under. We'll continue to disagree...those laws reflected God's desires. We do not stone people, but all the reasons people were to be stoned, still reflect God's thoughts concerning those matters. If you don't think so, I've nothing else to say (and am leaving thread anyway).

That's correct, God didn't change, but the covenants changes drastically. The writer of Hebrews, along with Jeremiah, makes it crystal clear that the OC was obsolete, and was replaced with a greater covenant.

I disagree. They were all set in place to show what bothers God about our sin condition, and what He'd do about it. You won't find pacifism at all in the O.T. Think about that. God doesn't change. You are about to tell me He does, because you are virtually going to say 'but' regarding whether we are brothers in Christ or not. That too is a reason I have to leave the thread. There is no fruit from angry retort and accusatory. You are literally advocating the same thing you are against. 1 John 3:15

I despise all things Dispensational.

Charismatic Pentecostal then, it seems. You have a bit more dispensational crept-in-theology than you think because you believe the change is 'drastic' by your own words. That's dispensationalism. I don't see a drastic change, I'm Covenant.

Well...I don't see any teachings from Jesus or Paul (or anyone else) that tell anyone in the Body to kill.

Paul says to defend and echos the Psalmist verse word for word. Nobody desires to have to do such, but there is no greater love, than one lay down his life for his friend. John 15:13 Instead of agreeing we are brothers, you said 'well...' It is troubling and another reason I can't continue in thread. If we aren't brothers in Christ, no fruit can come from a spat and disagreement. It will just degenerate into terrible things said, so I have to leave and hope these few words in response will suffice.

Notice how angry these people get when they are asked to back their positions with scripture from Jesus and/or Paul to support their killings and wars?

I'm not sure how it's not "accusatory". If you're advocating that killing is the only way to stop killing, then of course it's accusatory.

Did someone get angry? I'm not. Who is, in your opinion?

 

[tetelestai]

...walked around Galilee carrying swords

ever wonder why they carried swords?

Ever wonder why they never killed anyone?

(Matt 26:52) “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

 

[meshak]

I am bowing out, but I think some of this can stand with but another post so I'll leave after this:

It isn't our primary concern. Protect, however, means to protect. Standing by while evil is done? The Lord Jesus Christ did not tell Peter his sword swing was ungodly. He and the rest of the disciples were called to be Apostles. Of course none of them would have had instructions about the concerns of this world. 1 Corinthians 7 says that I have specific duties as a father and husband and that their care is my concern. I cannot trade places with a single man who does not have that directive.


Nope. The only thing the Jews were told to do, was to not do blood sacrifice for sin. All other commands they were under. We'll continue to disagree...those laws reflected God's desires. We do not stone people, but all the reasons people were to be stoned, still reflect God's thoughts concerning those matters. If you don't think so, I've nothing else to say (and am leaving thread anyway).


I disagree. They were all set in place to show what bothers God about our sin condition, and what He'd do about it. You won't find pacifism at all in the O.T. Think about that. God doesn't change. You are about to tell me He does, because you are virtually going to say 'but' regarding whether we are brothers in Christ or not. That too is a reason I have to leave the thread. There is no fruit from angry retort and accusatory. You are literally advocating the same thing you are against. 1 John 3:15




Charismatic Pentecostal then, it seems. You have a bit more dispensational crept-in-theology than you think because you believe the change is 'drastic' by your own words. That's dispensationalism. I don't see a drastic change, I'm Covenant.





Paul says to defend and echos the Psalmist verse word for word. Nobody desires to have to do such, but there is no greater love, than one lay down his life for his friend. John 15:13 Instead of agreeing we are brothers, you said 'well...' It is troubling and another reason I can't continue in thread. If we aren't brothers in Christ, no fruit can come from a spat and disagreement. It will just degenerate into terrible things said, so I have to leave and hope these few words in response will suffice.

Unbelievable. talk about evasive tactic.

I spot so many excuses to justify pro-military position.

And he will run away in a hurry to be questioned.