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  • #31
    -
    The Rich Man, Lazarus, And Abraham

    Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
    untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

    Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
    untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

    For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
    about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
    boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
    other is far removed from normal reality.

    I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
    be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing
    seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares
    among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the
    blind, et al.

    Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese;
    we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy;
    but none of them are like that. No; there's nothing out of the ordinary in his
    parables. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never
    fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the normal round of
    human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever.

    Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
    that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
    theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
    man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
    religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
    (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among
    normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something
    untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's
    buddies.

    And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
    story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
    things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
    commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

    There is something else to consider.

    The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
    it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
    managed.

    †. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

    †. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
    things which I have heard of Him.

    †. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
    as the Father taught me.

    †. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
    He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    †. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
    sent me.

    So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
    that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
    truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
    seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

    His impeccable character is what makes that narrative all the more
    terrifying. Unless somebody can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that
    Christ's Father is a tale-spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative
    was drawn from real-life; and if not drawn from real life, then at least based
    upon real life.

    In other words: there really is an afterlife place of conscious suffering where
    people endure unbearable anxiety worrying that loved ones are on a road to
    where they are and there is no way to warn them.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    Comment


    • #32
      In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

      The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

      The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

      He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

      The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

      The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

      And so it is today.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by jamie View Post
        In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

        The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

        The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

        He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

        The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

        The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

        And so it is today.
        Bs"d

        And this is what Moses says:


        שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד


        Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is
        ONE.

        And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
        And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
        and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
        And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
        And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
        Deut 6:4-9

        The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.
        Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Elia View Post
          And this is what Moses says:
          And this is what Jesus says, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:15 NKJV)

          What gospel?
          And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed." (Galatians 3:8 NKJV)

          How so?
          ...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14 NKJV)

          The promise of the Spirit is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

          Because the law is weak through the flesh it holds no promise of eternal life. On the contrary, the soul that sins shall die.

          Your law is a law of death. No thanks.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by jamie View Post
            And this is what Jesus says, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand.
            Bs"d

            And with that statement he made a horrible mistake:

            In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..

            Now, almost 2000 years later, the kingdom is still not here.

            This claim of Jesus to return soon in order to judge the whole world is all over the New Testament. Look for instance in Revelations 1:1-3, idem 3:11, idem 22:6, 10-12, 20. Everywhere here is spoken about a soon return and the early Christian communities were expecting the return of Christ in their lifetimes, as we can read in I Corinthians 7:29, Romans 13:11-12, and I Peter 4:7. Their belief in a return of Christ in their lifetimes was based upon very clear, not to be misunderstood statements of Jesus. Look for an impressive prophesy in Mark 13:24-30: "The sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. And the stars of heaven will fall and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he shall send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven ….. Verily I say to you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done." -----See also Matthew 24:29-35 and Luke 21;25-33. .

            This generation passed away almost 2000 years ago, and no one has seen him coming back on the clouds to establish his kingdom of peace and gather in his elected Christians.



            In Matthew 16:27-28 Jesus says: "For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom." See also Mark 9:1

            Did anybody see him coming in his kingdom? Is every man already rewarded according to his works?... But some of them would not die until they would have seen him coming in his kingdom!...Are they still around today?....Even Methuselah didn't live that long!

            From this we must conclude that Jesus has a very poor resume as a prophet. What does the Holy Torah that the only eternal G.d gave to the Jewish people say about this?

            Deuteronomy 18:20-22: "But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart; how shall we know the word that the LORD has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, this is the thing that the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him."

            Here G.d commands the Jewish people to execute false prophets, who are prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Jesus is a perfect example of a prophet whose prophecy did not come true.



            "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

            Micah 4:5
            Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

            Comment


            • #36
              Jesus did not come the way religion said he was going to come the first time, and Jesus is not coming back the way religion said he is coming back the second time. While they are preaching "Peace and safety"; destruction comes upon them like a woman in travail. Do we see the possibility of mass destruction today? Scoffers come in the last days saying, "Where is the day of his coming?" They ignore the fact that in Noah's day that the world was deluged and destroyed by water, but in our day the world will be purged with fire!
              3 It is most important for you to understand what will happen in the last days. People will laugh at you. They will live doing the evil things they want to do. 4 They will say, “Jesus promised to come again. Where is he? Our fathers have died, but the world continues the way it has been since it was made.” 5 But they do not want to remember what happened long ago. By the word of God heaven was made, and the earth was made from water and with water. 6 Then the world was flooded and destroyed with water. 7 And that same word of God is keeping heaven and earth that we now have in order to be destroyed by fire. They are being kept for the Judgment Day and the destruction of all who are against God. 2 Pet 3

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Elia View Post
                In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..
                The kingdom is still at hand, it's as close as a person's last breath.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Elia View Post
                  This claim of Jesus to return soon in order to judge the whole world is all over the New Testament.
                  Jesus said He did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Well of course Jesus is coming back tomorrow!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jamie View Post
                      The kingdom is still at hand, it's as close as a person's last breath.
                      Bs"d

                      That's what he said 2000 years ago.


                      "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

                      Micah 4:5
                      Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Elia View Post
                        That's what he said 2000 years ago.
                        And it's still available today.
                        Oh come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before YHVH our Maker. For He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.

                        Today, if you will hear His voice do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, as in the day of trial in the wilderness...
                        (Psalm 95:6-8 NKJV)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by False Prophet View Post
                          Well of course Jesus is coming back tomorrow!
                          Bs"d

                          Well, since he didn't, you totally live up to you name.

                          "O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
                          Jer 16:19
                          Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The Taldmud, the Torah, the Targums and the Midrash, including the entirety of the Hebrew scriptures are replete with indications as to when the promised Messiah would come.

                            Matter of fact the knowledge of when the Messiah would come was so well known circa 2BC - 1AD that even Herod who wasnt a Jew was fearful of this coming 'King' as Herod erroneously assumed that this King was going to usurp his throne. Little did Herod know that this Kings throne although in the line of David was not an earthly one.
                            Even the stiff necked Pharisees didnt doubt the timing of the prophecy and when they expected the Messiah to appear.

                            Considering there are no records that exist on the lineage of this Messiah today, who was prophesied to come through the line of David -the twig of Jesse- as they were destroyed in 70AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, and those same records were used to prove Jesus lineage prior to the destruction of Jerusalem hence why Luke recorded them in the gospel of Luke, how exactly does Judaism expect to confirm the lineage of this Messiah they're still waiting on?
                            Last edited by SonOfCaleb; December 26th, 2015, 04:44 AM.
                            John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Bs"d

                              Why would anybody think that somebody who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies was the messiah??



                              "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

                              Micah 4:5
                              Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Elia View Post
                                Bs"d

                                Why would anybody think that somebody who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies was the messiah??



                                "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".

                                Micah 4:5
                                Don't you know what faith is? Besides, why are you making such a big deal over an Earthly kingdom? Christians don't have the same goals that you have. We don't want what you want.


                                Let's say that Israel becomes the leading nation of the world. Then what?

                                Comment

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