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  • Originally posted by dialm View Post
    Come on now pie lady. You are a very nice person but there are no absolutes in the art of baking.
    Originally posted by dialm View Post
    It is a pinch of this and a dash of that.
    There are most definitely absolutes in the art of baking. Salt out of the bread as well as the faith makes for blandness.
    I AM the pie lady!!

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    • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
      Of course! I agree with you on that one. If God did not exist, Heaven would not. Why? Because God caused Heaven to exist. The difference between you and me is that in your mind, Heaven here is akin to a blissful place inhabited by God and His angels and God knows what else. In mine, Heaven is meant to be the universe and we all are in the composition of it. Now, if you read Luke 17:21, Jesus referred to Heaven as an esoteric peaceful condition of mind we all are supposed to invite into ourselves and not the other way around. IOW, that the kingdom of Heaven is within each one of us or among ourselves and not a place to get into.
      It's weird how people can see the allegory in one place but can't see it in another. While Yeshua stated that Heaven is within us, He didn't mean that Heaven is an esoteric peaceful condition of the mind but rather that the faith which we hold in our hearts, where God wrote His Law, is what determines our destination.

      Yeshua said, "I go to prepare a place for you." Whether the place called Heaven is visible to us now or not, it is a tangible place that He went to and likened it to a mansion or insula. It is where God, our very real, tangible Creator lives. Our God is not an esoteric, peaceful condition of the mind. Our God is real, all powerful, ever present and all knowing. He walked and spoke with Adam. He spoke to Moses and the Prophets. He literally led His people out of bondage. The difference between you and I is faith.
      I AM the pie lady!!

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      • Originally posted by jamie View Post
        Jesus founded a new sect within Judaism based on a new covenant with Jews and Gentiles.

        Because Paul was a Roman citizen he could travel freely thoughout the Roman empire and shared with Jews and Gentiles about this new covenant.
        At least, would you please quote to me where I can read that Jesus founded a new sect within Judaism? What I have is that even the Sect of the Nazarenes was organized by his Apostles on his behalf and not by Jesus himself and they chose Jerusalem for their headquarters. But hey, you might be right but for that you must quote your assertion as an evidence of what you say.

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        • Originally posted by truthjourney View Post
          1 - It does not say that Jesus was born out of fornication. Why do you take that scripture out of context? You zero in on the word fornication and link it to Jesus that way instead of what Jesus said "But you are doing the deeds of your father." What was he talking about? Isn't fornication in the scriptures also said to be idolatry?

          2 - Jer. 3:8And I see when (for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery) I have sent her away, and I give the bill of her divorce unto her, that treacherous Judah her sister hath not feared, and goeth and committeth fornication --she also.

          3 - And it hath come to pass, from the vileness of her fornication, that the land is defiled, and she committeth fornication with stone and with wood.

          4 - Ezek. 16:26 And thou hast committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, men of large bodies, and hast multiplied thy fornications to provoke me.28Thou hast also committed ornication with the Assyrians, because thou wast not yet satisfied: and after thou hadst played the harlot with them, even so thou wast not contented. 29Thou hast also multiplied thy fornications in the land of Chanaan with the Chaldeans: and neither so wast then satisfied.

          5 - John 8:44 "You are from your father The Devil, and the desire of your father you are willing to do; from the beginning he has been murdering men and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him; whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from what is his, because he is of falsehood and is also its father."

          6 - John 8: 47"Whoever is from God hears God's words; therefore you are not hearing, because you are not from God."

          7 - John 8:42Yeshua said unto them, "If God were your father you would have loved me, for I have proceeded from God and have not come of my own pleasure, but he has sent Me
          1 - No, it is in the same context of John 8. It is very clear that Jesus was born out of fornication. That was the answer given by Jews that did not like to hear Jesus calling them children of the devil. That's called Christian preconceived notion. You prefer to attack back without giving an honest answer.

          2 - It just happens that, according to Jer. 31:30 and Ezek. 18:20 we have nothing to do with the sins of our fathers. No one has to die for the sins of another.

          3 - I do not deny but, as I have said above, we have nothing to do with the sins of our fathers.

          4 - It just happens that we were talking about the fornication in John 8:41 and you have poured on me several texts that have nothing to do with the issue under discussion.

          5 - And the answer of the Jews who did not like to be called children of the devil was that Jesus was born out of fornication. (John 8:41) And their answer caused you to attack our fathers with sins that we have nothing to do with.

          6 - And neither was Jesus as long as you insist on letting Christian preconceived notions cloud your understanding of the whole NT.

          7 - And according to Christian preconceived notions, John 8:41 was written by mistake. Isn't that so? BTW, I wonder how the Catholic Canon of the NT allow John 8:41 to be there. The truth sometimes has its way to sneak around and be missed among the crowds.

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          • Originally posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
            If the 'good' are apparently going to Heaven what's the point in the Earth and why would God create it, or the humans on it, only for them to die and possibly go to Heaven. Seems like a very sub optimal process to me....
            Not that I don't agree with you because I do. What beats me is how a Christian exposes such a point of view.

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            • Originally posted by IMJerusha View Post
              It's weird how people can see the allegory in one place but can't see it in another. While Yeshua stated that Heaven is within us, He didn't mean that Heaven is an esoteric peaceful condition of the mind but rather that the faith which we hold in our hearts, where God wrote His Law, is what determines our destination.

              Yeshua said, "I go to prepare a place for you." Whether the place called Heaven is visible to us now or not, it is a tangible place that He went to and likened it to a mansion or insula. It is where God, our very real, tangible Creator lives. Our God is not an esoteric, peaceful condition of the mind. Our God is real, all powerful, ever present and all knowing. He walked and spoke with Adam. He spoke to Moses and the Prophets. He literally led His people out of bondage. The difference between you and I is faith.
              Jerusha, do you know the difference between walking by faith and walking by sight? It is the same difference between the Christian faith and that of the Jew. Paul said that Christians walk by faith and not by sight. (II Cor. 5:7) To walk by faith is akin to walking in the dark. To walk by sight is to walk with understanding. Perhaps Paul wanted you to walk by faith and leave the understanding with him.

              What kind of Law did God write in your heart, the Law of Moses? Jesus implied in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus that the only way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) Was that the Law God wrote in your heart?

              When Yeshua said, "I go to prepare a place for you" where did he in your opinion go? I asked in my prior post if you believed Jesus to be a Jew. If you do, where in your opinion Jesus went, to heaven or to the grave? Use common sense and Logic to answer this question of mine, please. Thanks.

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              • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
                At least, would you please quote to me where I can read that Jesus founded a new sect within Judaism?
                The story begins with Psalm 110:4.

                Are you familiar enough with the Bible to connect the dots?

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                • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                  The story begins with Psalm 110:4.

                  Are you familiar enough with the Bible to connect the dots?
                  Yes. Originally, that Psalm was written by David thus: "And the Lord said to me..." Since that Psalm was among the Psalms selected to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites, it would have been awkward for them to sing, "The Lord said to me..." Therefore, the Psalm was amended to be read, "The Lord (God) said to my lord (David) sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool." You may see this in the JPS a Jewish publication of the Tanach. But for Christianity, the KJV adulterated the text to sign Jesus in. If the dead could know what's going on up here, believe me, Jesus would turn in the grave.

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                  • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
                    Yes. Originally, that Psalm was written by David thus: "And the Lord said to me..." Since that Psalm was among the Psalms selected to be chanted in the Temple by the Levites, it would have been awkward for them to sing, "The Lord said to me..." Therefore, the Psalm was amended to be read, "The Lord (God) said to my lord (David) sit at My right hand till I make of your enemies your footstool." You may see this in the JPS a Jewish publication of the Tanach. But for Christianity, the KJV adulterated the text to sign Jesus in. If the dead could know what's going on up here, believe me, Jesus would turn in the grave.
                    accept Jesus Christ Is your Lord AND Savior ! ! ! -

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                    • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
                      accept Jesus Christ Is your Lord AND Savior ! ! ! -
                      Jesus himself said that HaShem is One and the only Lord. (Mark 12:29) And as being savior is concern, this is according to whom, you or Paul? Alas! All the same to me.

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                      • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
                        believe me, Jesus would turn in the grave.
                        We're done.

                        I don't engage in that kind of animosity toward Jesus.

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                        • Originally posted by jamie View Post
                          We're done.

                          I don't engage in that kind of animosity toward Jesus.
                          Jamie, believe it or not, the only animosity toward Jesus in this place is perpetrated by those that deny Jesus' real Jewish identity as they promote Jesus as a Greek demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. I asked you if Jesus was a Jew and you have never answered my question. I wonder why. And now you are done with me! Why, because of my question? Okay I quit asking and I'll take it that you do not know. Is that okay?

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                          • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
                            Jamie, believe it or not, the only animosity toward Jesus in this place is perpetrated by those that deny Jesus' real Jewish identity as they promote Jesus as a Greek demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. I asked you if Jesus was a Jew and you have never answered my question. I wonder why. And now you are done with me! Why, because of my question? Okay I quit asking and I'll take it that you do not know. Is that okay?
                            Jesus was Jewish. He came from the line of Judah.
                            John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

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                            • Originally posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
                              Jesus was Jewish. He came from the line of Judah.
                              There we go! I hope Jamie has read this and is of the same opinion.

                              Now SOC, you have given me material for a new and paradoxical question. If Jesus was from the line of Judah, he could not be son of God because God is not from the Tribe of Judah. On the other hand, if he was the son of God, he could not be the Messiah because the Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah. Now, it is your turn. How do you harmonize this paradox? Thanks to you in advance.

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                              • Originally posted by Shibolet View Post
                                1 - No, it is in the same context of John 8. It is very clear that Jesus was born out of fornication. That was the answer given by Jews that did not like to hear Jesus calling them children of the devil. That's called Christian preconceived notion. You prefer to attack back without giving an honest answer.
                                No it's not very clear that Jesus was born out fornication. That sounds like an accusation. I guess you think all accusations against God's servants are true and there are examples of accusations in the scriptures. Speaking of preconceived notions, it sounds like you have some. And I wasn't attacking. In fact I think I was being more than civil after what you said about Jesus.
                                Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness.
                                I am convinced that nothing can separate us from the love of God.
                                All things work together for good to them that love God.

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