What is Jesus saying in John 8:58 and what is he not saying?

[clefty]

Excellent post, my friend!

Or...?

Halakha (Jewish law) identifies thirty-nine categories of activity prohibited on Shabbat, and clarifies many questions surrounding the application of the biblical prohibitions. Many of these activities are also prohibited on the Jewish holidays listed in the Torah, although there are significant exceptions permitting carrying and preparing food under specific circumstances.

Jews disagree about how to interpret these categories and there are often strong disagreements between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Jews or other non-Orthodox Jews.

The thirty-nine creative activities are:
1. Planting
2. Plowing
3. Reaping
4. Gathering
5. Threshing/Extraction
6. Winnowing
7. Sorting/Purification
8. Grinding
9. Sifting
10. Kneading/Amalgamation
11. Cooking/Baking
12. Shearing
13. Scouring/Laundering
14. Carding/Combing wool
15. Dyeing
16. Spinning
17. Warping
18. Making two loops/threading heddles
19. Weaving
20. Separating two threads
21. Tying
22. Untying
23. Sewing
24. Tearing
25. Trapping
26. Slaughtering
27. Flaying/Skinning
28. Curing/Preserving
29. Smoothing
30. Scoring
31. Measured Cutting
32. Writing
33. Erasing
34. Building
35. Demolition
36. Extinguishing a fire
37. Igniting a fire
38. Applying the finishing touch
39. Transferring between domains

Carrying of mats falls under #39

https://ebible.com/questions/4695-wh...on-the-sabbath

so it’s of JEWISH laws...and you see the others the Pharisees tried to nail Him on...

or do you really mean to have Him SIN...or divide His Father’s kingdom between those that do and those that don’t...?





From BibleHub:

was He breaking
ἔλυεν (elyen)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3089: A primary verb; to 'loosen'.

Matthew 5:19 V-ASA-3S
GRK: ἐὰν οὖν λύσῃ μίαν τῶν
NAS: Whoever then annuls one of the least
KJV: therefore shall break one
INT: if then shall break one of the

Matthew 16:19 V-ASA-2S
GRK: ὃ ἐὰν λύσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: whatsoever thou shalt loose on
INT: whatever if you might loose on the

Matthew 16:19 V-RPM/P-NNS
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένον ἐν τοῖς
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in the

Matthew 18:18 V-ASA-2P
GRK: ὅσα ἐὰν λύσητε ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth
INT: how many if you shall loose on the

Matthew 18:18 V-RPM/P-NNP
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένα ἐν οὐρανῷ
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in heaven

Matthew 21:2 V-APA-NMP
GRK: μετ' αὐτῆς λύσαντες ἀγάγετέ μοι
NAS: [there] and a colt with her; untie them and bring
KJV: her: loose [them], and bring
INT: with her having untied [them] bring [them] to me

Mark 1:7 V-ANA
GRK: ἱκανὸς κύψας λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: to stoop down and untie the thong
KJV: worthy to stoop down and unloose.
INT: fit having stooped down to untie the strap

Mark 7:35 V-AIP-3S
GRK: ἀκοαί καὶ ἐλύθη ὁ δεσμὸς
NAS: of his tongue was removed, and he [began] speaking
KJV: of his tongue was loosed, and he spake
INT: ears and was loosed the band

Mark 11:2 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἀνθρώπων ἐκάθισεν λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat; loose him, and bring
INT: of men has sat having untied it also

Mark 11:4 V-PIA-3P
GRK: ἀμφόδου καὶ λύουσιν αὐτόν
NAS: in the street; and they untied it.
KJV: and they loose him.
INT: crossing and they untied it

Mark 11:5 V-PPA-NMP
GRK: Τί ποιεῖτε λύοντες τὸν πῶλον
NAS: are you doing, untying the colt?
KJV: What do ye, loosing the colt?
INT: What are you doing untying the colt

Luke 3:16 V-ANA
GRK: εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: not fit to untie the thong
KJV: worthy to unloose: he
INT: I am fit to untie the strap

Luke 13:15 V-PIA-3S
GRK: σαββάτῳ οὐ λύει τὸν βοῦν
NAS: of you on the Sabbath untie his ox
KJV: of you on the sabbath loose his ox
INT: Sabbath not does he untie the ox

Luke 13:16 V-ANP
GRK: οὐκ ἔδει λυθῆναι ἀπὸ τοῦ
NAS: should she not have been released from this
KJV: years, be loosed from
INT: not ought [she] to be loosed from the

Luke 19:30 V-APA-NMP
GRK: ἐκάθισεν καὶ λύσαντες αὐτὸν ἀγάγετε
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat: loose him, and bring
INT: sat and having untied it bring [it]

Luke 19:31 V-PIA-2P
GRK: Διὰ τί λύετε οὕτως ἐρεῖτε
NAS: you, 'Why are you untying it?' you shall say,
KJV: Why do ye loose [him]? thus
INT: because of why do you untie [it] thus will you say

Luke 19:33 V-PPA-GMP
GRK: λυόντων δὲ αὐτῶν
NAS: As they were untying the colt,
KJV: as they were loosing the colt,
INT: on untying moreover of them

Luke 19:33 V-PIA-2P
GRK: αὐτούς Τί λύετε τὸν πῶλον
NAS: to them, Why are you untying the colt?
KJV: them, Why loose ye the colt?
INT: them Why untie you the colt

John 1:27 V-ASA-1S
GRK: ἄξιος ἵνα λύσω αὐτοῦ τὸν
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.
KJV: worthy to unloose.
INT: worthy that I should untie of him the

John 2:19 V-AMA-2P
GRK: εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν
NAS: answered them, Destroy this
KJV: said unto them, Destroy this temple,
INT: said to them Destroy the temple

John 5:18 V-IIA-3S
GRK: οὐ μόνον ἔλυεν τὸ σάββατον
NAS: He not only was breaking the Sabbath,
KJV: not only had broken the sabbath, but
INT: not only did he break the Sabbath

(leave it to Sunday keeping translators...lol)

John 7:23 V-ASP-3S
GRK: ἵνα μὴ λυθῇ ὁ νόμος
NAS: of Moses will not be broken, are you angry
KJV: not be broken; are ye angry
INT: that not might be broken the law

John 10:35 V-ANP
GRK: οὐ δύναται λυθῆναι ἡ γραφή
NAS: (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
KJV: the scripture cannot be broken;
INT: not is able be broken the Scripture

John 11:44 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς αὐτοῖς Λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: said to them, Unbind him, and let
KJV: saith unto them, Loose him, and
INT: Jesus to them Unbind him and

Acts 2:24 V-APA-NMS
GRK: θεὸς ἀνέστησεν λύσας τὰς ὠδῖνας
NAS: raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony
KJV: hath raised up, having loosed the pains
INT: God raised up having loosed the agony

Acts 7:33 V-AMA-2S
GRK: ὁ κύριος Λῦσον τὸ ὑπόδημα
NAS: SAID TO HIM, 'TAKE OFF THE SANDALS
KJV: to him, Put off thy shoes
INT: the Lord Take off the sandal

Acts 13:25 V-ANA
GRK: τῶν ποδῶν λῦσαι
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.'
KJV: not worthy to loose.
INT: of the feet to untie

Acts 13:43 V-APP-GFS
GRK: λυθείσης δὲ τῆς
NAS: when [the meeting of] the synagogue had broken up, many
KJV: when the congregation was broken up, many
INT: having broke up moreover the

Acts 22:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἔλυσεν αὐτόν καὶ
NAS: by the Jews, he released him and ordered
KJV: of the Jews, he loosed him from
INT: the Jews he unnound him and

Acts 27:41 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: δὲ πρύμνα ἐλύετο ὑπὸ τῆς
NAS: but the stern [began] to be broken up by the force
KJV: the hinder part was broken with
INT: and [the] stern was broken by the

1 Corinthians 7:27 V-RIM/P-2S
GRK: ζήτει λύσιν λέλυσαι ἀπὸ γυναικός
NAS: to be released. Are you released from a wife?
KJV: to be loosed. Art thou loosed from
INT: seek to be loosed have you been loosed from a wife

Ephesians 2:14 V-APA-NMS
GRK: τοῦ φραγμοῦ λύσας
NAS: [groups into] one and broke down the barrier
KJV: and hath broken down the middle wall
INT: of the fence having broken down

2 Peter 3:10 V-FIP-3S
GRK: δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσεται καὶ γῆ
NAS: and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat,
KJV: the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
INT: moreover burning with heat will be dissolved and [the] earth

2 Peter 3:11 V-PPM/P-GNP
GRK: οὕτως πάντων λυομένων ποταποὺς δεῖ
NAS: these things are to be destroyed in this way,
KJV: these things shall be dissolved, what manner
INT: then all being to be dissolved what kind of [persons] ought

2 Peter 3:12 V-FIP-3P
GRK: οὐρανοὶ πυρούμενοι λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα
NAS: the heavens will be destroyed by burning,
KJV: being on fire shall be dissolved, and
INT: [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements

1 John 3:8 V-ASA-3S
GRK: θεοῦ ἵνα λύσῃ τὰ ἔργα
NAS: for this purpose, to destroy the works
KJV: that he might destroy the works
INT: of God that he might undo the works

Revelation 1:5 V-APA-DMS
GRK: ἡμᾶς καὶ λύσαντι ἡμᾶς ἐκ
NAS: To Him who loves us and released us from our sins
INT: us and having washed us from

Revelation 5:2 V-ANA
GRK: βιβλίον καὶ λῦσαι τὰς σφραγῖδας
NAS: the book and to break its seals?
KJV: and to loose the seals
INT: book and to break the seals

Revelation 9:14 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τὴν σάλπιγγα Λῦσον τοὺς τέσσαρας
NAS: the trumpet, Release the four
KJV: had the trumpet, Loose the four angels
INT: the trumpet Release the four

Revelation 9:15 V-AIP-3P
GRK: καὶ ἐλύθησαν οἱ τέσσαρες
NAS: and year, were released, so
KJV: angels were loosed, which
INT: And were loosed the four

Revelation 20:3 V-ANP
GRK: ταῦτα δεῖ λυθῆναι αὐτὸν μικρὸν
NAS: he must be released for a short
KJV: he must be loosed a little season.
INT: things it is necessary for must be released him a little

Revelation 20:7 V-FIP-3S
GRK: χίλια ἔτη λυθήσεται ὁ Σατανᾶς
NAS: Satan will be released from his prison,
KJV: Satan shall be loosed out of
INT: thousand years will be released Satan

I guess I could have just linked all this but since you didn’t check it for yourself I just wanted to help.





Here’s an article which discusses this issue which I doubt you’ll read...but others here might.

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/c...7&context=jats




7 times Yahushua healed on the Sabbath...most of them in front of Pharisees to trigger them like, well...many posters here...

NONE of these healings were an emergency and He could have easily waited one more day...you know magic Sunday or something...instead He indeed wished to set the Sabbath free of Jewish handling misuse and abuse...from Pharisees who like Eve had added to the Word...

https://teachingsofthebible.wordpres...n-the-sabbath/

Seven times...neat eh?

Healing Peters mother-in-law could have waited or resolved itself but He wanted her to serve them that day...LOL...as it was not made for the wife...(old Sabbathkeepers joke...notice wife isn’t listed Exodus 20:10 daughter is cattle is oh yeah and believing goyim too...)

Good stuff eh?

You and yours here should come over some Sabbath and let yourselves experience FOR A DAY that which was made for you, by your Creator, even before man sinned...certainly before it was bound up by Jews for themselves or rejected by ChristLites drinkers...you know “LESSCALORIESLAW STILL REFRESHING” (sort of)...

Cuz “TGIF!“ is that feeling you get when your body wants a Sabbath...What Grace...

 

[oatmeal]

​

Actually, it not that time. It is time for you to believe Jesus' own words

 

[oatmeal]

Or...?

Halakha (Jewish law) identifies thirty-nine categories of activity prohibited on Shabbat, and clarifies many questions surrounding the application of the biblical prohibitions. Many of these activities are also prohibited on the Jewish holidays listed in the Torah, although there are significant exceptions permitting carrying and preparing food under specific circumstances.

Jews disagree about how to interpret these categories and there are often strong disagreements between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Jews or other non-Orthodox Jews.

The thirty-nine creative activities are:
1. Planting
2. Plowing
3. Reaping
4. Gathering
5. Threshing/Extraction
6. Winnowing
7. Sorting/Purification
8. Grinding
9. Sifting
10. Kneading/Amalgamation
11. Cooking/Baking
12. Shearing
13. Scouring/Laundering
14. Carding/Combing wool
15. Dyeing
16. Spinning
17. Warping
18. Making two loops/threading heddles
19. Weaving
20. Separating two threads
21. Tying
22. Untying
23. Sewing
24. Tearing
25. Trapping
26. Slaughtering
27. Flaying/Skinning
28. Curing/Preserving
29. Smoothing
30. Scoring
31. Measured Cutting
32. Writing
33. Erasing
34. Building
35. Demolition
36. Extinguishing a fire
37. Igniting a fire
38. Applying the finishing touch
39. Transferring between domains

Carrying of mats falls under #39

https://ebible.com/questions/4695-wh...on-the-sabbath

so it’s of JEWISH laws...and you see the others the Pharisees tried to nail Him on...

or do you really mean to have Him SIN...or divide His Father’s kingdom between those that do and those that don’t...?





From BibleHub:

was He breaking
ἔλυεν (elyen)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3089: A primary verb; to 'loosen'.

Matthew 5:19 V-ASA-3S
GRK: ἐὰν οὖν λύσῃ μίαν τῶν
NAS: Whoever then annuls one of the least
KJV: therefore shall break one
INT: if then shall break one of the

Matthew 16:19 V-ASA-2S
GRK: ὃ ἐὰν λύσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: whatsoever thou shalt loose on
INT: whatever if you might loose on the

Matthew 16:19 V-RPM/P-NNS
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένον ἐν τοῖς
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in the

Matthew 18:18 V-ASA-2P
GRK: ὅσα ἐὰν λύσητε ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth
INT: how many if you shall loose on the

Matthew 18:18 V-RPM/P-NNP
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένα ἐν οὐρανῷ
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in heaven

Matthew 21:2 V-APA-NMP
GRK: μετ' αὐτῆς λύσαντες ἀγάγετέ μοι
NAS: [there] and a colt with her; untie them and bring
KJV: her: loose [them], and bring
INT: with her having untied [them] bring [them] to me

Mark 1:7 V-ANA
GRK: ἱκανὸς κύψας λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: to stoop down and untie the thong
KJV: worthy to stoop down and unloose.
INT: fit having stooped down to untie the strap

Mark 7:35 V-AIP-3S
GRK: ἀκοαί καὶ ἐλύθη ὁ δεσμὸς
NAS: of his tongue was removed, and he [began] speaking
KJV: of his tongue was loosed, and he spake
INT: ears and was loosed the band

Mark 11:2 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἀνθρώπων ἐκάθισεν λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat; loose him, and bring
INT: of men has sat having untied it also

Mark 11:4 V-PIA-3P
GRK: ἀμφόδου καὶ λύουσιν αὐτόν
NAS: in the street; and they untied it.
KJV: and they loose him.
INT: crossing and they untied it

Mark 11:5 V-PPA-NMP
GRK: Τί ποιεῖτε λύοντες τὸν πῶλον
NAS: are you doing, untying the colt?
KJV: What do ye, loosing the colt?
INT: What are you doing untying the colt

Luke 3:16 V-ANA
GRK: εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: not fit to untie the thong
KJV: worthy to unloose: he
INT: I am fit to untie the strap

Luke 13:15 V-PIA-3S
GRK: σαββάτῳ οὐ λύει τὸν βοῦν
NAS: of you on the Sabbath untie his ox
KJV: of you on the sabbath loose his ox
INT: Sabbath not does he untie the ox

Luke 13:16 V-ANP
GRK: οὐκ ἔδει λυθῆναι ἀπὸ τοῦ
NAS: should she not have been released from this
KJV: years, be loosed from
INT: not ought [she] to be loosed from the

Luke 19:30 V-APA-NMP
GRK: ἐκάθισεν καὶ λύσαντες αὐτὸν ἀγάγετε
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat: loose him, and bring
INT: sat and having untied it bring [it]

Luke 19:31 V-PIA-2P
GRK: Διὰ τί λύετε οὕτως ἐρεῖτε
NAS: you, 'Why are you untying it?' you shall say,
KJV: Why do ye loose [him]? thus
INT: because of why do you untie [it] thus will you say

Luke 19:33 V-PPA-GMP
GRK: λυόντων δὲ αὐτῶν
NAS: As they were untying the colt,
KJV: as they were loosing the colt,
INT: on untying moreover of them

Luke 19:33 V-PIA-2P
GRK: αὐτούς Τί λύετε τὸν πῶλον
NAS: to them, Why are you untying the colt?
KJV: them, Why loose ye the colt?
INT: them Why untie you the colt

John 1:27 V-ASA-1S
GRK: ἄξιος ἵνα λύσω αὐτοῦ τὸν
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.
KJV: worthy to unloose.
INT: worthy that I should untie of him the

John 2:19 V-AMA-2P
GRK: εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν
NAS: answered them, Destroy this
KJV: said unto them, Destroy this temple,
INT: said to them Destroy the temple

John 5:18 V-IIA-3S
GRK: οὐ μόνον ἔλυεν τὸ σάββατον
NAS: He not only was breaking the Sabbath,
KJV: not only had broken the sabbath, but
INT: not only did he break the Sabbath

(leave it to Sunday keeping translators...lol)

John 7:23 V-ASP-3S
GRK: ἵνα μὴ λυθῇ ὁ νόμος
NAS: of Moses will not be broken, are you angry
KJV: not be broken; are ye angry
INT: that not might be broken the law

John 10:35 V-ANP
GRK: οὐ δύναται λυθῆναι ἡ γραφή
NAS: (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
KJV: the scripture cannot be broken;
INT: not is able be broken the Scripture

John 11:44 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς αὐτοῖς Λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: said to them, Unbind him, and let
KJV: saith unto them, Loose him, and
INT: Jesus to them Unbind him and

Acts 2:24 V-APA-NMS
GRK: θεὸς ἀνέστησεν λύσας τὰς ὠδῖνας
NAS: raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony
KJV: hath raised up, having loosed the pains
INT: God raised up having loosed the agony

Acts 7:33 V-AMA-2S
GRK: ὁ κύριος Λῦσον τὸ ὑπόδημα
NAS: SAID TO HIM, 'TAKE OFF THE SANDALS
KJV: to him, Put off thy shoes
INT: the Lord Take off the sandal

Acts 13:25 V-ANA
GRK: τῶν ποδῶν λῦσαι
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.'
KJV: not worthy to loose.
INT: of the feet to untie

Acts 13:43 V-APP-GFS
GRK: λυθείσης δὲ τῆς
NAS: when [the meeting of] the synagogue had broken up, many
KJV: when the congregation was broken up, many
INT: having broke up moreover the

Acts 22:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἔλυσεν αὐτόν καὶ
NAS: by the Jews, he released him and ordered
KJV: of the Jews, he loosed him from
INT: the Jews he unnound him and

Acts 27:41 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: δὲ πρύμνα ἐλύετο ὑπὸ τῆς
NAS: but the stern [began] to be broken up by the force
KJV: the hinder part was broken with
INT: and [the] stern was broken by the

1 Corinthians 7:27 V-RIM/P-2S
GRK: ζήτει λύσιν λέλυσαι ἀπὸ γυναικός
NAS: to be released. Are you released from a wife?
KJV: to be loosed. Art thou loosed from
INT: seek to be loosed have you been loosed from a wife

Ephesians 2:14 V-APA-NMS
GRK: τοῦ φραγμοῦ λύσας
NAS: [groups into] one and broke down the barrier
KJV: and hath broken down the middle wall
INT: of the fence having broken down

2 Peter 3:10 V-FIP-3S
GRK: δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσεται καὶ γῆ
NAS: and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat,
KJV: the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
INT: moreover burning with heat will be dissolved and [the] earth

2 Peter 3:11 V-PPM/P-GNP
GRK: οὕτως πάντων λυομένων ποταποὺς δεῖ
NAS: these things are to be destroyed in this way,
KJV: these things shall be dissolved, what manner
INT: then all being to be dissolved what kind of [persons] ought

2 Peter 3:12 V-FIP-3P
GRK: οὐρανοὶ πυρούμενοι λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα
NAS: the heavens will be destroyed by burning,
KJV: being on fire shall be dissolved, and
INT: [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements

1 John 3:8 V-ASA-3S
GRK: θεοῦ ἵνα λύσῃ τὰ ἔργα
NAS: for this purpose, to destroy the works
KJV: that he might destroy the works
INT: of God that he might undo the works

Revelation 1:5 V-APA-DMS
GRK: ἡμᾶς καὶ λύσαντι ἡμᾶς ἐκ
NAS: To Him who loves us and released us from our sins
INT: us and having washed us from

Revelation 5:2 V-ANA
GRK: βιβλίον καὶ λῦσαι τὰς σφραγῖδας
NAS: the book and to break its seals?
KJV: and to loose the seals
INT: book and to break the seals

Revelation 9:14 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τὴν σάλπιγγα Λῦσον τοὺς τέσσαρας
NAS: the trumpet, Release the four
KJV: had the trumpet, Loose the four angels
INT: the trumpet Release the four

Revelation 9:15 V-AIP-3P
GRK: καὶ ἐλύθησαν οἱ τέσσαρες
NAS: and year, were released, so
KJV: angels were loosed, which
INT: And were loosed the four

Revelation 20:3 V-ANP
GRK: ταῦτα δεῖ λυθῆναι αὐτὸν μικρὸν
NAS: he must be released for a short
KJV: he must be loosed a little season.
INT: things it is necessary for must be released him a little

Revelation 20:7 V-FIP-3S
GRK: χίλια ἔτη λυθήσεται ὁ Σατανᾶς
NAS: Satan will be released from his prison,
KJV: Satan shall be loosed out of
INT: thousand years will be released Satan

I guess I could have just linked all this but since you didn’t check it for yourself I just wanted to help.





Here’s an article which discusses this issue which I doubt you’ll read...but others here might.

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/c...7&context=jats




7 times Yahushua healed on the Sabbath...most of them in front of Pharisees to trigger them like, well...many posters here...

NONE of these healings were an emergency and He could have easily waited one more day...you know magic Sunday or something...instead He indeed wished to set the Sabbath free of Jewish handling misuse and abuse...from Pharisees who like Eve had added to the Word...

https://teachingsofthebible.wordpres...n-the-sabbath/

Seven times...neat eh?

Healing Peters mother-in-law could have waited or resolved itself but He wanted her to serve them that day...LOL...as it was not made for the wife...(old Sabbathkeepers joke...notice wife isn’t listed Exodus 20:10 daughter is cattle is oh yeah and believing goyim too...)

Good stuff eh?

You and yours here should come over some Sabbath and let yourselves experience FOR A DAY that which was made for you, by your Creator, even before man sinned...certainly before it was bound up by Jews for themselves or rejected by ChristLites drinkers...you know “LESSCALORIESLAW STILL REFRESHING” (sort of)...

Cuz “TGIF!“ is that feeling you get when your body wants a Sabbath...What Grace...

Very interesting post.

You have done a lot of homework to provide that information.

Note, what the Jews were upset about

John 5:20

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

I did not see "carry thy bed" on your list

For that matter, there is no evidence that the healed man was as you put it,

39. Transferring between domains

Note that obeying the lord of the sabbath is not one of the things on your list of forbidden activities

Nor is healing someone in need of healing

 

[clefty]

Very interesting post.

You have done a lot of homework to provide that information.

HalleluYah...I’ve been discussing sabbatismos for awhile...

Note, what the Jews were upset about

John 5:20

The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

I did not see "carry thy bed" on your list

For that matter, there is no evidence that the healed man was as you put it, “39. Transferring between domains“

Yes this was addressed in linked article:

“What seems to offend the Jews, at least initially, is that the man is carrying his bed (5:10). Jer 17:21-27 and Neh 13:15-22 contain 10 prohibitions against carrying loads on the Sabbath.However, a closer
look at the context of these two OT passages indicates that the issue at hand
was transporting goods to buy and sell in the market on the Sabbath. In
Jeremiah this is indicated by a number of elements. The first is the noun
aF'm; used four times (17:21,22,24,27) and translated “load.” It suggests marketable goods carried by donkeys, mules or camels. The second, is the fact that the “work” of carrying is defined by the use of the noun hk'al'm. that
carries the idea of one’s “occupation” or “main business.”Third, the repeated reference to the gates of Jerusalem (17:21,24,27) through which the loads were carried confirms that in view was the transportation goods for market.“

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/c...7&context=jats

Note that obeying the lord of the sabbath is not one of the things on your list of forbidden activities

Nor is healing someone in need of healing

yes...LOL...Pharisees though continue to see around the log in their eyes...despite having removed the Sabbath instituted in the beginning before Abraham when I Am made it for man before his fall...

 

[oatmeal]

HalleluYah...I’ve been discussing sabbatismos for awhile...



Yes this was addressed in linked article:

“What seems to offend the Jews, at least initially, is that the man is carrying his bed (5:10). Jer 17:21-27 and Neh 13:15-22 contain 10 prohibitions against carrying loads on the Sabbath.However, a closer
look at the context of these two OT passages indicates that the issue at hand
was transporting goods to buy and sell in the market on the Sabbath. In
Jeremiah this is indicated by a number of elements. The first is the noun
aF'm; used four times (17:21,22,24,27) and translated “load.” It suggests marketable goods carried by donkeys, mules or camels. The second, is the fact that the “work” of carrying is defined by the use of the noun hk'al'm. that
carries the idea of one’s “occupation” or “main business.”Third, the repeated reference to the gates of Jerusalem (17:21,24,27) through which the loads were carried confirms that in view was the transportation goods for market.“

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/c...7&context=jats


yes...LOL...Pharisees though continue to see around the log in their eyes...despite having removed the Sabbath instituted in the beginning before Abraham when I Am made it for man before his fall...

Based on your list, the healed man is innocent

 

[clefty]

Based on your list, the healed man is innocent

You would have Yahushua have him break the Sabbath according to His Father’s will?

 

[oatmeal]

You would have Yahushua have him break the Sabbath according to His Father’s will?

What are you talking about?

The healed man obeyed the lord of the sabbath who always did his Father's will

there was no breach of the sabbath law by either Jesus or the healed man

It was your list, not mine, carrying a bed is not on your list

Maybe you should read your list

 

[clefty]

What are you talking about?

The healed man obeyed the lord of the sabbath who always did his Father's will

yes of course...but not according to the Pharisees...and the ones in scriptures...to the ones around here they use this as PROOF He did away with the Sabbath as He broke it..."I am the Lord of the Sabbath I get to destroy it"...as if the Lord of London or of the Rings would say the same..."I am the Lord of London...I will destroy it"...LOL

there was no breach of the sabbath law by either Jesus or the healed man

right...except if you argue as a Pharisee OR a desperate ChristLite drinker who wants "NOW WITH LESS SUGAR LAW...SAME GREAT PROMISED TASTE"

It was your list, not mine, carrying a bed is not on your list

sure it was the Pharisees list at #39. Transferring between domains

Carrying of mats falls under #39 even to the current inquisition..."thus the Law was done away with and HERETIC is he who Judaizes...he is OTHER" HA sorry jokes from another thread...

Maybe you should read your list

ok I did even included an article snippet which concludes:

“What seems to offend the Jews, at least initially, is that the man is carrying his bed (5:10). Jer 17:21-27 and Neh 13:15-22 contain 10 prohibitions against carrying loads on the Sabbath.However, a closer​

look at the context of these two OT passages indicates that the issue at hand​

was transporting goods to buy and sell in the market on the Sabbath. In​

Jeremiah this is indicated by a number of elements. The first is the noun​

aF'm; used four times (17:21,22,24,27) and translated “load.” It suggests marketable goods carried by donkeys, mules or camels. The second, is the fact that the “work” of carrying is defined by the use of the noun hk'al'm. that​

carries the idea of one’s “occupation” or “main business.”Third, the repeated reference to the gates of Jerusalem (17:21,24,27) through which the loads were carried confirms that in view was the transportation goods for market.“​

in case you missed it I bolded who was offended...false witnessing jews which still claim "Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered to us" Acts 6:13-14

so NOT you...you are not taking offense at his carrying his mat...but at least you are still responding to this thread...

 

[oatmeal]

yes of course...but not according to the Pharisees...and the ones in scriptures...to the ones around here they use this as PROOF He did away with the Sabbath as He broke it..."I am the Lord of the Sabbath I get to destroy it"...as if the Lord of London or of the Rings would say the same..."I am the Lord of London...I will destroy it"...LOL

right...except if you argue as a Pharisee OR a desperate ChristLite drinker who wants "NOW WITH LESS SUGAR LAW...SAME GREAT PROMISED TASTE"

sure it was the Pharisees list at #39. Transferring between domains

Carrying of mats falls under #39 even to the current inquisition..."thus the Law was done away with and HERETIC is he who Judaizes...he is OTHER" HA sorry jokes from another thread...




ok I did even included an article snippet which concludes:

“What seems to offend the Jews, at least initially, is that the man is carrying his bed (5:10). Jer 17:21-27 and Neh 13:15-22 contain 10 prohibitions against carrying loads on the Sabbath.However, a closer​

look at the context of these two OT passages indicates that the issue at hand​

was transporting goods to buy and sell in the market on the Sabbath. In​

Jeremiah this is indicated by a number of elements. The first is the noun​

aF'm; used four times (17:21,22,24,27) and translated “load.” It suggests marketable goods carried by donkeys, mules or camels. The second, is the fact that the “work” of carrying is defined by the use of the noun hk'al'm. that​

carries the idea of one’s “occupation” or “main business.”Third, the repeated reference to the gates of Jerusalem (17:21,24,27) through which the loads were carried confirms that in view was the transportation goods for market.“​

in case you missed it I bolded who was offended...false witnessing jews which still claim "Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered to us" Acts 6:13-14

so NOT you...you are not taking offense at his carrying his mat...but at least you are still responding to this thread...

He was not transferring between domains

He was at the pool not a domain

A domain is a domain

A pool is a pool

You seek to disparage Jesus' perfect obedience to the Father

Why do you seek to do that?

Evidently you prefer yourself to be Lord not the son of God

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law,

He did not fulfill the law by breaking it

He fulfilled it by fulfilling it.

He fulfilled all the law and the prophets except those events are yet future to get be lived

Funny in

I get mocked by some here because I believe that Jesus is not God the Son, but the son of God, a man, who is the lamb without spot or blemish because of his perfect obedience to the Father,.

Yet you seem to believe that Jesus being God would violate Himself

How religion can warp the minds of men

 

[clefty]

He was not transferring between domains

He was at the pool not a domain

A domain is a domain

A pool is a pool

You seek to disparage Jesus' perfect obedience to the Father

Why do you seek to do that?

Evidently you prefer yourself to be Lord not the son of God

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law,

He did not fulfill the law by breaking it

He fulfilled it by fulfilling it.

He fulfilled all the law and the prophets except those events are yet future to get be lived

Funny in

I get mocked by some here because I believe that Jesus is not God the Son, but the son of God, a man, who is the lamb without spot or blemish because of his perfect obedience to the Father,.

Yet you seem to believe that Jesus being God would violate Himself

How religion can warp the minds of men

why you so triggered? as the kids say now a daze...?

take it up with the Jews who maybe did think his domain was next to the pool...he was crippled for 38 years...had NO ONE to help him...

so was it the matt he carried? or was it the domain issue? or the fact he was healed? which broke the Sabbath? NONE

He was told to get up and walk...NOT go home...he had NO ONE to help him...so he was to just walk...but you know them Jews and posters who domain here all desirous to prove the Sabbath was broken...and thus for posters here...done away with...

so calm down...it's only Monday...save your energy for those who oppose you...next rest in 5 daze...

 

[7djengo7]

Actually, it not that time. It is time for you to believe Jesus' own words

What the Bible says, God says, and so, by believing what the Bible says, I'm believing what God says. John 5:18 is the Bible, and I believe John 5:18, so, by believing John 5:18, I'm believing the Bible. You, on the other hand, rather than believing what the Bible says, arrogantly contradict John 518; you contradict the Bible--you are contradicting what God says. You are, of course, free to continue to cling to your un-Scriptural, heretical, anti-Christ, make-believe "Jesus", while blaspheming the Jesus of the Bible, but by doing so you, at the very best, will continue to manifest yourself to be a complete yoyo.

 

[Tigger 2]

John 5:19:

"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them [the Jews of Jn 5:18]...." - NASB.

"So Jesus said to them, .... " - English Standard Version.

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them,..." - King James Version

"Jesus therefore answered and said unto them...." - ASV.

"Jesus responded to the Jewish leaders...." - CEB.

“Jesus answered and said to them, ...." - NAB. .

"Answering, then, · Jesus · said to them...." - MOUNCE.

“So Jesus answered them, ...” - Good News Bible.

"So Jesus answered and said to them...." - LEB.

"Jesus gave them this answer:...." - NIV.

“To this charge Jesus replied, ....” - The New English Bible (and the REB).

“To this accusation Jesus replied: ...” - The Jerusalem Bible.


And The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English which has an interlinear literal word-for-word translation of the NT text by noted trinitarian scholar Rev. Alfred Marshall:

"Answered therefore - Jesus and said to them: ...."

These respected trinitarian translators have said Jesus replied to this accusation. He must have responded to the previous comment (5:18) by the Jews!

“The Jews taxed [Jesus] with making himself equal with God [at John 5:18].” - p. 499, Vol. 2, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan Publishing, 1976, 1986.


“Our Lord’s opponents say that He has ‘called God his own Father [John 5:18].’” - The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 968, Vol. 2, Eerdman’s Publishing, 1956, 1984.


The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, quoted above, is one of the most respected and best-known trinitarian Bible encyclopedias (as also is The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology)

 

[7djengo7]

Or...?

Be very, very specific. What (if any) point are you trying to make?

According to John, in John 5:18, Jesus had broken the sabbath. That's what I've been pointing out; that's what all these anti-Christ heretics are warring against.

​

Halakha (Jewish law) identifies thirty-nine categories of activity prohibited on Shabbat, and clarifies many questions surrounding the application of the biblical prohibitions. Many of these activities are also prohibited on the Jewish holidays listed in the Torah, although there are significant exceptions permitting carrying and preparing food under specific circumstances.

Jews disagree about how to interpret these categories and there are often strong disagreements between Orthodox Jews and Conservative Jews or other non-Orthodox Jews.

By "Jewish law", do you mean the Bible, alone? For, I couldn't care less about anything you would call "Jewish law" that is not the Bible; it would be of absolutely no authority.

LOL @ "Jews disagree": Among other things, is there not fundamental disagreement among different persons who call themselves "Jews" over who is, and who is not, a Jew--over what constitutes someone a Jew, and what constitutes someone else a non-Jew?

​

The thirty-nine creative activities are:
1. Planting
2. Plowing
3. Reaping
4. Gathering
5. Threshing/Extraction
6. Winnowing
7. Sorting/Purification
8. Grinding
9. Sifting
10. Kneading/Amalgamation
11. Cooking/Baking
12. Shearing
13. Scouring/Laundering
14. Carding/Combing wool
15. Dyeing
16. Spinning
17. Warping
18. Making two loops/threading heddles
19. Weaving
20. Separating two threads
21. Tying
22. Untying
23. Sewing
24. Tearing
25. Trapping
26. Slaughtering
27. Flaying/Skinning
28. Curing/Preserving
29. Smoothing
30. Scoring
31. Measured Cutting
32. Writing
33. Erasing
34. Building
35. Demolition
36. Extinguishing a fire
37. Igniting a fire
38. Applying the finishing touch
39. Transferring between domains

Carrying of mats falls under #39

https://ebible.com/questions/4695-wh...on-the-sabbath

so it’s of JEWISH laws...and you see the others the Pharisees tried to nail Him on...

Where do you find any of what you just said in the Bible?

or do you really mean to have Him SIN...or divide His Father’s kingdom between those that do and those that don’t...?[/quote]

Of course, I have never once said that Jesus has, or had, sin, but since you have not taken the time to read all my posts in this thread, you have failed to notice that I (at least once) have specifically pointed out that Jesus (according to John 5:18) had broken the sabbath, and that He had done so without sin.

​

From BibleHub:

was He breaking
ἔλυεν (elyen)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3089: A primary verb; to 'loosen'.

Matthew 5:19 V-ASA-3S
GRK: ἐὰν οὖν λύσῃ μίαν τῶν
NAS: Whoever then annuls one of the least
KJV: therefore shall break one
INT: if then shall break one of the

Matthew 16:19 V-ASA-2S
GRK: ὃ ἐὰν λύσῃς ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: whatsoever thou shalt loose on
INT: whatever if you might loose on the

Matthew 16:19 V-RPM/P-NNS
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένον ἐν τοῖς
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in the

Matthew 18:18 V-ASA-2P
GRK: ὅσα ἐὰν λύσητε ἐπὶ τῆς
NAS: and whatever you loose on earth
KJV: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth
INT: how many if you shall loose on the

Matthew 18:18 V-RPM/P-NNP
GRK: γῆς ἔσται λελυμένα ἐν οὐρανῷ
NAS: on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
KJV: earth shall be loosed in heaven.
INT: earth will be loosed in heaven

Matthew 21:2 V-APA-NMP
GRK: μετ' αὐτῆς λύσαντες ἀγάγετέ μοι
NAS: [there] and a colt with her; untie them and bring
KJV: her: loose [them], and bring
INT: with her having untied [them] bring [them] to me

Mark 1:7 V-ANA
GRK: ἱκανὸς κύψας λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: to stoop down and untie the thong
KJV: worthy to stoop down and unloose.
INT: fit having stooped down to untie the strap

Mark 7:35 V-AIP-3S
GRK: ἀκοαί καὶ ἐλύθη ὁ δεσμὸς
NAS: of his tongue was removed, and he [began] speaking
KJV: of his tongue was loosed, and he spake
INT: ears and was loosed the band

Mark 11:2 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἀνθρώπων ἐκάθισεν λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat; loose him, and bring
INT: of men has sat having untied it also

Mark 11:4 V-PIA-3P
GRK: ἀμφόδου καὶ λύουσιν αὐτόν
NAS: in the street; and they untied it.
KJV: and they loose him.
INT: crossing and they untied it

Mark 11:5 V-PPA-NMP
GRK: Τί ποιεῖτε λύοντες τὸν πῶλον
NAS: are you doing, untying the colt?
KJV: What do ye, loosing the colt?
INT: What are you doing untying the colt

Luke 3:16 V-ANA
GRK: εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς λῦσαι τὸν ἱμάντα
NAS: not fit to untie the thong
KJV: worthy to unloose: he
INT: I am fit to untie the strap

Luke 13:15 V-PIA-3S
GRK: σαββάτῳ οὐ λύει τὸν βοῦν
NAS: of you on the Sabbath untie his ox
KJV: of you on the sabbath loose his ox
INT: Sabbath not does he untie the ox

Luke 13:16 V-ANP
GRK: οὐκ ἔδει λυθῆναι ἀπὸ τοῦ
NAS: should she not have been released from this
KJV: years, be loosed from
INT: not ought [she] to be loosed from the

Luke 19:30 V-APA-NMP
GRK: ἐκάθισεν καὶ λύσαντες αὐτὸν ἀγάγετε
NAS: sat; untie it and bring
KJV: man sat: loose him, and bring
INT: sat and having untied it bring [it]

Luke 19:31 V-PIA-2P
GRK: Διὰ τί λύετε οὕτως ἐρεῖτε
NAS: you, 'Why are you untying it?' you shall say,
KJV: Why do ye loose [him]? thus
INT: because of why do you untie [it] thus will you say

Luke 19:33 V-PPA-GMP
GRK: λυόντων δὲ αὐτῶν
NAS: As they were untying the colt,
KJV: as they were loosing the colt,
INT: on untying moreover of them

Luke 19:33 V-PIA-2P
GRK: αὐτούς Τί λύετε τὸν πῶλον
NAS: to them, Why are you untying the colt?
KJV: them, Why loose ye the colt?
INT: them Why untie you the colt

John 1:27 V-ASA-1S
GRK: ἄξιος ἵνα λύσω αὐτοῦ τὸν
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.
KJV: worthy to unloose.
INT: worthy that I should untie of him the

John 2:19 V-AMA-2P
GRK: εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Λύσατε τὸν ναὸν
NAS: answered them, Destroy this
KJV: said unto them, Destroy this temple,
INT: said to them Destroy the temple

John 5:18 V-IIA-3S
GRK: οὐ μόνον ἔλυεν τὸ σάββατον
NAS: He not only was breaking the Sabbath,
KJV: not only had broken the sabbath, but
INT: not only did he break the Sabbath

(leave it to Sunday keeping translators...lol)

John 7:23 V-ASP-3S
GRK: ἵνα μὴ λυθῇ ὁ νόμος
NAS: of Moses will not be broken, are you angry
KJV: not be broken; are ye angry
INT: that not might be broken the law

John 10:35 V-ANP
GRK: οὐ δύναται λυθῆναι ἡ γραφή
NAS: (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
KJV: the scripture cannot be broken;
INT: not is able be broken the Scripture

John 11:44 V-AMA-2P
GRK: Ἰησοῦς αὐτοῖς Λύσατε αὐτὸν καὶ
NAS: said to them, Unbind him, and let
KJV: saith unto them, Loose him, and
INT: Jesus to them Unbind him and

Acts 2:24 V-APA-NMS
GRK: θεὸς ἀνέστησεν λύσας τὰς ὠδῖνας
NAS: raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony
KJV: hath raised up, having loosed the pains
INT: God raised up having loosed the agony

Acts 7:33 V-AMA-2S
GRK: ὁ κύριος Λῦσον τὸ ὑπόδημα
NAS: SAID TO HIM, 'TAKE OFF THE SANDALS
KJV: to him, Put off thy shoes
INT: the Lord Take off the sandal

Acts 13:25 V-ANA
GRK: τῶν ποδῶν λῦσαι
NAS: I am not worthy to untie.'
KJV: not worthy to loose.
INT: of the feet to untie

Acts 13:43 V-APP-GFS
GRK: λυθείσης δὲ τῆς
NAS: when [the meeting of] the synagogue had broken up, many
KJV: when the congregation was broken up, many
INT: having broke up moreover the

Acts 22:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἔλυσεν αὐτόν καὶ
NAS: by the Jews, he released him and ordered
KJV: of the Jews, he loosed him from
INT: the Jews he unnound him and

Acts 27:41 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: δὲ πρύμνα ἐλύετο ὑπὸ τῆς
NAS: but the stern [began] to be broken up by the force
KJV: the hinder part was broken with
INT: and [the] stern was broken by the

1 Corinthians 7:27 V-RIM/P-2S
GRK: ζήτει λύσιν λέλυσαι ἀπὸ γυναικός
NAS: to be released. Are you released from a wife?
KJV: to be loosed. Art thou loosed from
INT: seek to be loosed have you been loosed from a wife

Ephesians 2:14 V-APA-NMS
GRK: τοῦ φραγμοῦ λύσας
NAS: [groups into] one and broke down the barrier
KJV: and hath broken down the middle wall
INT: of the fence having broken down

2 Peter 3:10 V-FIP-3S
GRK: δὲ καυσούμενα λυθήσεται καὶ γῆ
NAS: and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat,
KJV: the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
INT: moreover burning with heat will be dissolved and [the] earth

2 Peter 3:11 V-PPM/P-GNP
GRK: οὕτως πάντων λυομένων ποταποὺς δεῖ
NAS: these things are to be destroyed in this way,
KJV: these things shall be dissolved, what manner
INT: then all being to be dissolved what kind of [persons] ought

2 Peter 3:12 V-FIP-3P
GRK: οὐρανοὶ πυρούμενοι λυθήσονται καὶ στοιχεῖα
NAS: the heavens will be destroyed by burning,
KJV: being on fire shall be dissolved, and
INT: [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements

1 John 3:8 V-ASA-3S
GRK: θεοῦ ἵνα λύσῃ τὰ ἔργα
NAS: for this purpose, to destroy the works
KJV: that he might destroy the works
INT: of God that he might undo the works

Revelation 1:5 V-APA-DMS
GRK: ἡμᾶς καὶ λύσαντι ἡμᾶς ἐκ
NAS: To Him who loves us and released us from our sins
INT: us and having washed us from

Revelation 5:2 V-ANA
GRK: βιβλίον καὶ λῦσαι τὰς σφραγῖδας
NAS: the book and to break its seals?
KJV: and to loose the seals
INT: book and to break the seals

Revelation 9:14 V-AMA-2S
GRK: τὴν σάλπιγγα Λῦσον τοὺς τέσσαρας
NAS: the trumpet, Release the four
KJV: had the trumpet, Loose the four angels
INT: the trumpet Release the four

Revelation 9:15 V-AIP-3P
GRK: καὶ ἐλύθησαν οἱ τέσσαρες
NAS: and year, were released, so
KJV: angels were loosed, which
INT: And were loosed the four

Revelation 20:3 V-ANP
GRK: ταῦτα δεῖ λυθῆναι αὐτὸν μικρὸν
NAS: he must be released for a short
KJV: he must be loosed a little season.
INT: things it is necessary for must be released him a little

Revelation 20:7 V-FIP-3S
GRK: χίλια ἔτη λυθήσεται ὁ Σατανᾶς
NAS: Satan will be released from his prison,
KJV: Satan shall be loosed out of
INT: thousand years will be released Satan

I guess I could have just linked all this but since you didn’t check it for yourself I just wanted to help.

What (if any) point do you imagine you're trying to make by loading me up with what somebody else who is not you has written, with no explanation from yourself as to exactly why you're handing it to me?

In John 5:18, John states that Jesus had broken the sabbath.

​

Here’s an article which discusses this issue which I doubt you’ll read...but others here might.

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/c...7&context=jats

7 times Yahushua healed on the Sabbath...most of them in front of Pharisees to trigger them like, well...many posters here...

NONE of these healings were an emergency and He could have easily waited one more day...you know magic Sunday or something...instead He indeed wished to set the Sabbath free of Jewish handling misuse and abuse...from Pharisees who like Eve had added to the Word...

https://teachingsofthebible.wordpres...n-the-sabbath/

Seven times...neat eh?

Healing Peters mother-in-law could have waited or resolved itself but He wanted her to serve them that day...LOL...as it was not made for the wife...(old Sabbathkeepers joke...notice wife isn’t listed Exodus 20:10 daughter is cattle is oh yeah and believing goyim too...)

Good stuff eh?

You and yours here should come over some Sabbath and let yourselves experience FOR A DAY that which was made for you, by your Creator, even before man sinned...certainly before it was bound up by Jews for themselves or rejected by ChristLites drinkers...you know “LESSCALORIESLAW STILL REFRESHING” (sort of)...

Cuz “TGIF!“ is that feeling you get when your body wants a Sabbath...What Grace...

LOL

Spare me.

Does John, in John 5:18, say that Jesus had broken the sabbath? Yes or No?

(Correct answer: Yes, John, in John 5:18, says that Jesus had broken the sabbath.)

 

[clefty]

Be very, very specific. What (if any) point are you trying to make?

very very specifically I wanted you to reconsider that your friend made an excellent post after all...which means I was presenting an alternative understanding to you and your friend...hence the “Or?“ in anticipation that you compare...

According to John, in John 5:18, Jesus had broken the sabbath. That's what I've been pointing out; that's what all these anti-Christ heretics are warring against.

yes no need to keep repeating your view to yourself so as not to forget it...I recall what it is and is WHY I said “Or?” So as to see if you would or could compare your view with another...

and perhaps maybe someone who does not necessarily agree with you is NOT an antichrist heretic...your Pharisee and inquisitional spirit however is noted...Always with the ad Homs and instinct to dispatch and censure dissent just like the Antifa types...lol...I even took friendly fire on this one...I fear for our future if we can not come let us reason...Or test all things or be berrean...

By "Jewish law", do you mean the Bible, alone? For, I couldn't care less about anything you would call "Jewish law" that is not the Bible; it would be of absolutely no authority.​

good good...you are in good company then...Yahushua too hated those Pharisees called them brood of vipers synagogue of Satan...told them they don’t enter the kingdom themselves and prevent others from doing so...how with their Jewish laws they made to add to the word...kinda like Eve ADDED “don’t touch” to what Yah said and went and deceived herself...

yup Pharisees had added even MORE laws to the customs Moses delivered them...like no picking and grinding with hands...or wash hands before eating...imagine that...Pharisees came up with that and not Torah...and they tried to bust on Yahushua or cast shade on His parade...haha...

He even said they replaced His Fathers Law with their silly added on traditions...NOT funny...Peter too later insisted rather they follow Yah than man’s traditions...can you imagine how many other ADDED traditions of man there are? Which replace Yah His Way...? can you think of any?

Yes you are right to ONLY want what the Bible says...and what Lord of the Sabbath says from His source of authority HIS sign seal family crest the Sabbath. Good for you to reject man’s traditions or clever reasoning to cheat you out of your reward...false teachers and such...

LOL @ "Jews disagree": Among other things, is there not fundamental disagreement among different persons who call themselves "Jews" over who is, and who is not, a Jew--over what constitutes someone a Jew, and what constitutes someone else a non-Jew?

LOL INDEED 2 Jews 3 opinions or something but yes constant bickering and who is first and who is last and what is great and which is least clean unclean...is EXACTLY why He FREED the Sabbath from all those regulations and commandments found in ordinances and handwritten requirements He abolished and wiped out...

some of these caused great enmity against goyim making them unclean and stuff...silly Jews their added burdens...

can you believe Jews expected full grown goyim men to be circumcised in the tradition of Moses which was to be cut on the eighth day of infancy...and by their parents...LOL...IMPOSSIBLE as they already were grown...this was NEVER taught in the OT...

these Jews NEVER had that BURDEN to choose whether or not they would allow themselves to be cut...but here they BURDENED OTHERS without having lifted themselves...Yahushua HATED that... called them hypocrite Jews out Matt 23:4 Luke 11:46...

that would be like me telling you you HAD to keep Sabbath when I was merely offered to do so...and I WANTED to...you know out of gratitude for what He did for me...not that I keep Sabbath to be saved but now that I am saved Sabbath keeps me...Closer to Him His ways His Faith lifestyle...

SAVED I WANT to do works benefitting repentance...be MORE like Him...WWJD? right? NOT man’s traditions but Yah’s...He is my Master...

Ok so where were we? Oh yeah Yahushua FREED the Sabbath from these man made TRADITIONS additions...extra burdens...but His yoke is easy...still a yoke though...

Where do you find any of what you just said in the Bible?​

I gave you some hints already...just remember even the golden calf is an attempt by man to worship Yah with their own made up worship...He being jealous finds that abominable...idolatry...Yah wants us to obey Him His way of worship...Yahushua even said do what they teach from Moses Seat but do not do what they DO...because they taught Sabbath keeping but then they did/added so many other rules which people had to do...

or do you really mean to have Him SIN...or divide His Father’s kingdom between those that do and those that don’t...

I asked...

Of course, I have never once said that Jesus has, or had, sin, but since you have not taken the time to read all my posts in this thread, you have failed to notice that I (at least once) have specifically pointed out that Jesus (according to John 5:18) had broken the sabbath, and that He had done so without sin.

ok see now you can’t break Yah’s Law WITHOUT it being sin...in fact it can go the other way...Yahushua said you can be mad or look with lust and break the law without acting on it...but it doesn’t work to Break a Law without sin...even unintentionally or by omission...oh my...

Are you ready to examine what John might of said in Greek? You know which was later translated into English and by those with a sinister agenda...That he would seek to change both times and Laws...

What (if any) point do you imagine you're trying to make by loading me up with what somebody else who is not you has written,​

biblehub heard of it? Use it much?

with no explanation from yourself as to exactly why you're handing it to me?

well maybe you don’t use biblehub is WHY I just copy pasted for you to read...

In John 5:18, John states that Jesus had broken the sabbath.

so I guess it didn’t help...

Your were to notIce that in the original Greek John in fact DID NOT say Yahushua broke the Law as that would be a sin...but John said instead that Yahushua LOOSED the Sabbath...and from the constraints of the Pharisees using their own traditions to bind the Sabbath down...

HERE TRY AGAIN:

was He breaking
ἔλυεν (elyen)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3089: A primary verb; to 'loosen'.

the
τὸ (to)
Article - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Sabbath,
σάββατον (sabbaton)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 4521: The Sabbath, a week.

https://biblehub.com/john/5-17.htm

Now go scroll up and read all those other texts that actually say loosed or loosened

but of course Sabbath rejectors translated it broke...they weren’t man enough as Sabbath was made for man...not just Jews...

“What so ever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven... bind will be bound”...familiar?

LOL

Spare me.

already dusting my sandals...

Does John, in John 5:18, say that Jesus had broken the sabbath? Yes or No?

depends which translation you use...go to the original? then NO...

If read that John wrote from the perspective of the Pharisees then YES...but now you side with the synagogue of Satan...odd choice...and thus He sinned so you invalidated Him as valid sacrifice...oh my...

(Correct answer: Yes, John, in John 5:18, says that Jesus had broken the sabbath.)

So for you He sinned... At least you are consistent in your inquistional and Pharisaic spirit standing with the slandering Jews who claimed Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered...Luke was clear that that was false witness...Acts 6:13-14​

​

​

 

[7djengo7]

So for you He sinned... At least you are consistent in your inquistional and Pharisaic spirit standing with the slandering Jews who claimed Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered...Luke was clear that that was false witness...Acts 6:13-14

Oh, so you're just going to lie about me, by claiming that I have claimed Jesus sinned by having broken the sabbath, eh? Despite the fact that I have, on the contrary, pointed out the Bible fact that without having sinned, Jesus (according to John, in John 5:18) had broken the sabbath.

So for you, Jesus sinned by His having broken the sabbath.

 

[clefty]

Oh, so you're just going to lie about me, by claiming that I have claimed Jesus sinned by having broken the sabbath, eh?

before I dust my sandals completely and slowly back away let me again state that the Bible is clear...breaking a commandment like the Sabbath is a sin...you claim he broke the Sabbath I have shown that He loosened it from Rabbinic rules...in their eyes He broke the Sabbath...in His eyes He FREED it from their additional burdens...

from your eyes He broke the Sabbath...and then claim without having sinned which is NOT possible...as Bible is clear breaking Law is a sin=sin is breaking the Law...

Despite the fact that I have, on the contrary, pointed out the Bible fact

should be easy for you to cite that fact then...

that without having sinned,

again your claim...your addition to His Word...you continue to do what He instructs you not to do...think NOT I have come to destroy...or to end or change as any alteration would be a destruction of the original...

Jesus (according to John, in John 5:18) had broken the sabbath.

NOPE...He loosened the Sabbath from the Pharisee’s grip...loosen...see if you spot it this time...

was He breaking
ἔλυεν (elyen)
Verb - Imperfect Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 3089: A primary verb; to 'loosen'.

the
τὸ (to)
Article - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.

Sabbath,
σάββατον (sabbaton)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 4521: The Sabbath, a week.


Ok so hope that helped...not sure why you NEED Him to break the Sabbath so bad...wait yes I do...after church Sunday Ham dinners...lol

So for you, Jesus sinned by His having broken the sabbath.

nope...quite simply... you break a commandment that is sin...you loosen or free the Sabbath from man’s tradition then that is NOT...

Not only did John write in greek that He loosened or freed Sabbath but John wrote it from the perspective of the Pharisees who then became upset someone DARE loosen free untie unbind break one of their commandments...One they made...

And now they tried to KILL Him...Oh and for blaspheming...

read carefully how John writes their perspective WITHOUT QUOTATIONS and then has Yahushua respond in reply WITH quotations AGAINST what they thought...they thought He was making Himself equal with Yah...SO Yahushua replied...NOT TO AFFIRM BUT REFUTE with ”...the Son can do NOTHING by Himself...UNLESS...the Father...”

So is Yahushua arguing with John who wrote He was making Himself equal with the Father or with the Jewish perspective which was claiming He was making Himself equal with the Father...which Yahushua denied...So He did not argue with John but with the Jewish perspective he wrote of...

So to conclude this...

John wrote the Jewish prespective that the Jews claimed He loosened the Sabbath and that He also equated Himself with the Father...is WHY they sought to kill Him...John then writes that even Yahushua denies this Jewish prespective and begins to elevate the Father...refuting their claim that He equates Himself with Yah for the REST OF THE CHAPTER...is how John writes it...

You must read the rest of the chapter.

Yahushua continues: verse 19 "...Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does." (See? the Pharisee's perspective was wrong}

So since you have the Son breaking the Law...or not keeping it...you imply the Father is ALSO NOT keeping His Own Law which is His Character...as the Son does what the Father does...So the Father LIED when He said the Sabbath was a perpetual (eternal) sign between Him and His people?

John ends the chapter with Yahushua confirming Moses is the accuser of the Pharisees...by what? a Law no longer binding? Moses, as Yahushua did, would also LOOSE their traditions the Pharisees placed on the Sabbath.

 

[7djengo7]

John says:

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

You directly contradict John:

NOPE...

He loosened the Sabbath from the Pharisee’s [sic] grip...loosen...see if you spot it this time...

Of course, that's NOT what John says. John does NOT say:

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only hadloosened the Sabbath from the Pharisees' grip, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

Rather, here's what John says:

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

Just as Jesus, according to John, said that God was his Father, Jesus, according to John, was making Himself equal with God, and Jesus, according to John, had broken the sabbath.​

Ok so hope that helped...not sure why you NEED Him to break the Sabbath so bad...wait yes I do...after church Sunday Ham dinners...lol

I just NEED to believe the Bible, and since the Bible declares that Jesus had broken the sabbath, I NEED to believe that Jesus had broken the sabbath...not sure why you NEED to lie, and contradict the Bible so bad...wait, yes I do...you are of your father, the devil.

nope...quite simply... you break a commandment that is sin...you loosen or free the Sabbath from man’s tradition then that is NOT...

It's funny how you're trying to bind up the Scripture, here, by your human tradition of adding things to Scripture. Whereas John states that Jesus had broken the sabbath, you write your own replacement for John's Scripture by telling us that John states that Jesus had "loosened the Sabbath from the Pharisee's [sic] grip".

Not only did John write in greek that He loosened or freed Sabbath but John wrote it from the perspective of the Pharisees

In John 5:18, John is reporting what Jesus did; in John 5:18, John is not presenting a record of anything that may or may not have been "the perspective of the Pharisees".

who then became upset someone DARE loosen free untie unbind break one of their commandments...One they made...

Sorry--that's not what John says. John does not say:

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only hadloosened, freed, untied, unbound, broken one of their commandments they made, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

​

Rather, John says:​

Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.​

​

Why do you call Pharisee-made commandments, "the Sabbath"? John, of course, certainly does no such thing.​

And now they tried to KILL Him...Oh and for blaspheming...

According to John, in John 5:18, the Jews "sought the more to kill" Jesus because Jesus

• had broken the sabbath
• said that God was His Father
• was making Himself equal with God

And, of course, John nowhere says that Jesus was blaspheming, nor that the Jews tried to kill Jesus for blaspheming.

read carefully how John writes their perspective WITHOUT QUOTATIONS

No he doesn't, you self-righteous, anti-Christ, heretic sinner. LOL @ your stupidity for having just told me that John is writing "their perspective" when he writes "he...said also that God was His Father".

• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus had broken the sabbath
• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus said that God was His Father
• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus was making Himself equal with God

and then has Yahushua[ respond in reply WITH quotations AGAINST what they thought...

John, in John 5:18, does not tell us what the Jews thought. Rather, among other things, John here tells us what the Jews sought: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him"

Think of the unmitigated stupidity of what you're claiming, here: you're saying that John is telling us the Jews THOUGHT that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father", and then you go on to claim that Jesus then corrected these Jews for thinking what you say they thought. In order to be able to correct someone for thinking that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father", it would need to be false that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father". So, why are you claiming that it is false that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father"?

they thought He was making Himself equal with Yah...

Perhaps so, though John, in John 5:18, does not tell us that they thought He was making Himself equal with God. Rather, John tells us that Jesus was making Himself equal with God.

SO Yahushua replied...NOT TO AFFIRM BUT REFUTE with ”...the Son can do NOTHING by Himself...UNLESS...the Father...”

Where does Jesus refute that He is equal with God? Obviously nowhere.

So is Yahushua arguing with John who wrote He was making Himself equal with the Father

Where? No part of John 5 is a record of Jesus arguing with John about anything.

or with the Jewish perspective which was claiming He was making Himself equal with the Father

LOL that you are saying it was "the Jewish perspective" which was claiming Jesus said God was His Father.

​

...which Yahushua denied...

Jesus, of course, nowhere denied that He was equal with God, nor did He deny that, by saying God was His Father, He was making Himself equal with God.

So He did not argue with John but with the Jewish perspective he wrote of...

In other words, you are, here, claiming that Jesus denied that He said that God was His Father. Got it.

John wrote the Jewish prespective [sic] that the Jews claimed He loosened the Sabbath and that He also equated Himself with the Father...is WHY they sought to kill Him...

Oh...and don't forget the other part of what you're calling "the Jewish perspective": that Jesus said that God was His Father!

So, according to you, Jesus did not really say that God was His Father--it was merely "the Jewish perspective" that Jesus said that God was His Father.

John then writes that even Yahushua denies this Jewish prespective [sic]

So, since you claim that "this Jewish prespective [sic]" is that Jesus said God was His Father, what you're telling me, here, is that "John then writes that even Yahushua denies [He said that God was His Father]".

So, why do you claim Jesus never said that God was His Father?

and begins to elevate the Father...

By this, do you mean that Jesus begins making Himself not equal to God? 'Cause, of course, nowhere in John 5 do we find Jesus making Himself not equal to God.

refuting their claim that He equates Himself with Yah for the REST OF THE CHAPTER...is how John writes it...

What about their claim that Jesus said that God was His Father? Is Jesus refuting their claim that God was His Father? (After all, remember....you're the one who has told me that it was the Jews' claim that Jesus said that God was His Father.)

You must read the rest of the chapter.

LOL Says the self-righteous, Pharisaical hypocrite who refuses to even read verse 18!

Yahushua continues: verse 19 "...Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

So?

(See? the Pharisee's [sic] perspective was wrong}

In other words, you're telling me that Jesus never actually said that God was His Father, because (according to you) it was just "the Pharisee's [sic] perspective" that Jesus said that God was His Father, and it was wrong? Got it.

So since you have the Son breaking the Law...or not keeping it...

Wait....exactly what (if anything) that you are calling "the Law" are you saying I am having the Son break...or not keep?

you imply the Father is ALSO NOT keeping His Own Law which is His Character

What (if anything) are you calling "His Own Law", here?

Are you saying that God the Father honours His father and mother (Exodus 20:12)? Whom would you say is God the Father's father? And whom His mother?

...as the Son does what the Father does...

No wonder you deny that Jesus--the Son--did not really say that God was His Father: if the Son says that God the Father is His Father, apparently, according to you, that must mean that God the Father says that God the Father is God the Father's Father. Oh, and who is God the Father's neighbor?

So the Father LIED when He said the Sabbath was a perpetual (eternal) sign between Him and His people?

No. God never lies. But you LIE, every time you write one of your shallow, heretical, Christ-despising, antinomian, anti-Christ posts on TOL.

 

[7djengo7]

LOL INDEED 2 Jews 3 opinions or something but yes constant bickering and who is first and who is last and what is great and which is least clean unclean...is EXACTLY why He FREED the Sabbath from all those regulations and commandments found in ordinances and handwritten requirements He abolished and wiped out...

You sure don't very carefully read what I have written:

LOL @ "Jews disagree": Among other things, is there not fundamental disagreement among different persons who call themselves "Jews" over who is, and who is not, a Jew--over what constitutes someone a Jew, and what constitutes someone else a non-Jew?

See?

What I did not write: "Among other things, is there not fundamental disagreement among different Jews...?"

What I did write: "Among other things, is there not fundamental disagreement among different persons who call themselves "Jews"...?"

 

[7djengo7]

John 5:19:

"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them [the Jews of Jn 5:18]...." - NASB.

"So Jesus said to them, .... " - English Standard Version.

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them,..." - King James Version

"Jesus therefore answered and said unto them...." - ASV.

"Jesus responded to the Jewish leaders...." - CEB.

“Jesus answered and said to them, ...." - NAB. .

"Answering, then, · Jesus · said to them...." - MOUNCE.

“So Jesus answered them, ...” - Good News Bible.

"So Jesus answered and said to them...." - LEB.

"Jesus gave them this answer:...." - NIV.

“To this charge Jesus replied, ....” - The New English Bible (and the REB).

“To this accusation Jesus replied: ...” - The Jerusalem Bible.


And The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English which has an interlinear literal word-for-word translation of the NT text by noted trinitarian scholar Rev. Alfred Marshall:

"Answered therefore - Jesus and said to them: ...."

These respected trinitarian translators have said Jesus replied to this accusation. He must have responded to the previous comment (5:18) by the Jews!

“The Jews taxed [Jesus] with making himself equal with God [at John 5:18].” - p. 499, Vol. 2, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan Publishing, 1976, 1986.


“Our Lord’s opponents say that He has ‘called God his own Father [John 5:18].’” - The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 968, Vol. 2, Eerdman’s Publishing, 1956, 1984.


The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, quoted above, is one of the most respected and best-known trinitarian Bible encyclopedias (as also is The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology)

In other words, according to you, Jesus never actually said that God was His Father; rather, in the words "he...also said that God was His Father", John (according to you) has merely recorded the Jews' false accusation that Jesus "also said that God was His Father". And further, according to you, John 5:19- is a record of Jesus' refuting this false accusation--it's a record of Jesus denying that He had ever said God was His Father.

You and your "most respected and best-known" "trinitarian" sources fail, again.

 

[oatmeal]

John says:



You directly contradict John:





Of course, that's NOT what John says. John does NOT say:



Rather, here's what John says:

Just as Jesus, according to John, said that God was his Father, Jesus, according to John, was making Himself equal with God, and Jesus, according to John, had broken the sabbath.​

I just NEED to believe the Bible, and since the Bible declares that Jesus had broken the sabbath, I NEED to believe that Jesus had broken the sabbath...not sure why you NEED to lie, and contradict the Bible so bad...wait, yes I do...you are of your father, the devil.



It's funny how you're trying to bind up the Scripture, here, by your human tradition of adding things to Scripture. Whereas John states that Jesus had broken the sabbath, you write your own replacement for John's Scripture by telling us that John states that Jesus had "loosened the Sabbath from the Pharisee's [sic] grip".



In John 5:18, John is reporting what Jesus did; in John 5:18, John is not presenting a record of anything that may or may not have been "the perspective of the Pharisees".



Sorry--that's not what John says. John does not say:

​

Rather, John says:​

[/LEFT]

Why do you call Pharisee-made commandments, "the Sabbath"? John, of course, certainly does no such thing.​

According to John, in John 5:18, the Jews "sought the more to kill" Jesus because Jesus

• had broken the sabbath
• said that God was His Father
• was making Himself equal with God

And, of course, John nowhere says that Jesus was blaspheming, nor that the Jews tried to kill Jesus for blaspheming.



No he doesn't, you self-righteous, anti-Christ, heretic sinner. LOL @ your stupidity for having just told me that John is writing "their perspective" when he writes "he...said also that God was His Father".

• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus had broken the sabbath
• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus said that God was His Father
• Biblico-historical fact: Jesus was making Himself equal with God

John, in John 5:18, does not tell us what the Jews thought. Rather, among other things, John here tells us what the Jews sought: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him"

Think of the unmitigated stupidity of what you're claiming, here: you're saying that John is telling us the Jews THOUGHT that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father", and then you go on to claim that Jesus then corrected these Jews for thinking what you say they thought. In order to be able to correct someone for thinking that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father", it would need to be false that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father". So, why are you claiming that it is false that "[Jesus] said also that God was His Father"?



Perhaps so, though John, in John 5:18, does not tell us that they thought He was making Himself equal with God. Rather, John tells us that Jesus was making Himself equal with God.



Where does Jesus refute that He is equal with God? Obviously nowhere.



Where? No part of John 5 is a record of Jesus arguing with John about anything.



LOL that you are saying it was "the Jewish perspective" which was claiming Jesus said God was His Father.

​



Jesus, of course, nowhere denied that He was equal with God, nor did He deny that, by saying God was His Father, He was making Himself equal with God.



In other words, you are, here, claiming that Jesus denied that He said that God was His Father. Got it.



Oh...and don't forget the other part of what you're calling "the Jewish perspective": that Jesus said that God was His Father!

So, according to you, Jesus did not really say that God was His Father--it was merely "the Jewish perspective" that Jesus said that God was His Father.



So, since you claim that "this Jewish prespective [sic]" is that Jesus said God was His Father, what you're telling me, here, is that "John then writes that even Yahushua denies [He said that God was His Father]".

So, why do you claim Jesus never said that God was His Father?



By this, do you mean that Jesus begins making Himself not equal to God? 'Cause, of course, nowhere in John 5 do we find Jesus making Himself not equal to God.



What about their claim that Jesus said that God was His Father? Is Jesus refuting their claim that God was His Father? (After all, remember....you're the one who has told me that it was the Jews' claim that Jesus said that God was His Father.)



LOL Says the self-righteous, Pharisaical hypocrite who refuses to even read verse 18!



So?



In other words, you're telling me that Jesus never actually said that God was His Father, because (according to you) it was just "the Pharisee's [sic] perspective" that Jesus said that God was His Father, and it was wrong? Got it.



Wait....exactly what (if anything) that you are calling "the Law" are you saying I am having the Son break...or not keep?



What (if anything) are you calling "His Own Law", here?

Are you saying that God the Father honours His father and mother (Exodus 20:12)? Whom would you say is God the Father's father? And whom His mother?



No wonder you deny that Jesus--the Son--did not really say that God was His Father: if the Son says that God the Father is His Father, apparently, according to you, that must mean that God the Father says that God the Father is God the Father's Father. Oh, and who is God the Father's neighbor?



No. God never lies. But you LIE, every time you write one of your shallow, heretical, Christ-despising, antinomian, anti-Christ posts on TOL.

It is a shame that you believe the false accusations that is recorded that the enemies of Christ leveled against him