Socialism is communism

Gary K

New member
Banned
I have stated the title of this thread here multiple times and have taken a lot of heat for it. What I am going to do here is post documentation of this from a guy by the name of John Spargo who references where what he says can be found. John Spargo was a leading socialist of his day and wrote a biography of Karl Marx. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Spargo

The following quote is taken from his book Socialism: A Summary and Interpretation of Socialist Principles. I knew I had read these facts and have been looking for the author of them but had been unable to find the quote as I read so much keeping who wrote what collated in my head gets difficult because of the sheer volume of reading material.

The book can be found on The Gutenberg Project website as a free download. That is where I originally found it.

The word gradually became more familiar in England. Throughout the years 1835-1836, in the pages of Owen's paper, The New Moral World, there are many instances of the word occurring. The French writer, Reybaud, in his "Reformateurs Modernes," published in 1840, made the term equally familiar to the reading public of Continental Europe. By him it was used to designate the teachings not merely of Owen and his followers, but those of all social reformers and visionaries—Saint-Simon, Charles Fourier, Louis Blanc, and others. By an easy transition, it soon came into general use as designating all altruistic visions, theories, and experiments, from the "Republic" of Plato onward through the centuries.

In this way much confusion arose. The word became too vague and indefinite to be distinctive. It was applied—frequently as an epithet—indiscriminately to persons of widely differing, and often conflicting, views. Every one who complained of social inequalities, every dreamer of social Utopias, was called a Socialist. The enthusiastic Christian, pleading for a return to the faith and practices of primitive Christianity, and the aggressive atheist, proclaiming religion to be the bulwark of the world's wrongs; the State worshiper, who would extol Law, and spread the net of government over the whole of life, and the iconoclastic Anarchist, who would destroy all forms of social authority, have all alike been dubbed Socialists, by their friends no less than by their opponents.

The confusion thus introduced has had the effect of seriously complicating the study of Socialism from the historical point of view. Much that one finds bearing the name of Socialism in the literature of the middle of the nineteenth century, for example, is not at all related to Socialism as that term is understood to-day. Thus the Socialists of the present day, who do not advocate Communism, regard as a classic presentation of their views the famous pamphlet by Karl Marx and Friederich Engels, The Communist Manifesto. They have circulated it by millions of copies in practically all the languages of the civilized world. Yet throughout it speaks of "Socialists" with ill-concealed disdain, and always in favor of Communism and the Communist Party. The reason for this is clearly explained by Engels himself in the preface written by him for the English edition, but that has not prevented many an unscrupulous opponent of Socialism from quoting the Communist Manifesto of Marx and Engels against the Socialists of the Marx-Engels school.[7] In like manner, the utterances and ideas of many of those who formerly called themselves Socialists have been quoted against the Socialists of to-day, notwithstanding that it was precisely on account of their desire to repudiate all connection with, and responsibility for, such ideas that the founders of the modern Socialist movement took the name "Communists."

Nothing could be clearer than the language in which Engels explains why the name Communist was chosen, and the name Socialist discarded. He says: "Yet, when it (the Manifesto) was written, we could not have called it a Socialist Manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand, the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of these already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks, who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances; in both cases men outside of the working-class movement, and looking rather to the 'educated' classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolution and had proclaimed the necessity of a total social change, that portion, then, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of Communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough among the working class to produce the Utopian Communism, in France, of Cabet, and in Germany, of Weitling. Thus Socialism was, in 1847, a middle-class movement; Communism a working-class movement. Socialism was, on the Continent at least, 'respectable'; Communism was the very opposite. And as our notion, from the very beginning, was that the 'emancipation of the working class must be the act of the working class itself,' there could be no doubt as to which of the names we must take. Moreover, we have ever since been far from regretting it."[8]

There is still, unfortunately, much misuse of the word "Socialism," even by some accredited Socialist exponents. Writers like Tolstoy, Ibsen, Zola, and many others, are constantly referred to as Socialists, when, in fact, they are nothing of the sort. Still, the word is now pretty generally understood as defined by the Socialists—not the "Socialists" of sixty years ago, who were mostly Communists, but the Socialists of to-day, whose principles find classic expression in the Communist Manifesto, and to the attainment of which they have directed their political parties and programmes. In the words of Professor Thorstein Veblen: "The Socialism that inspires hopes and fears to-day is of the school of Marx. No one is seriously apprehensive of any other so-called Socialistic movement, and no one is seriously concerned to criticise or refute the doctrines set forth by any other school of 'Socialists.'"[9]

So, when those who argue that socialism and communism today are separate unrelated ideologies it's a flat out untruth. Marx and Engels were socialists who took the name communist to separate themselves from previous socialists whom they despised and considered to be "utopians". Not that Marx and Engels weren't utopians as they were just utopians of a different kind. Utopians who desired violent revolution and the complete destruction of society by any means necessary.
 

The Horn

BANNED
Banned
Conservatives in America use the terms socialism and communism so vaguely and loosely they have lost all meaning and are now nothing but frightening sounding buzz words used to frighten gullible, ignorant, naive and poorly educated people .
No, socialism is not the same as communism . Communism is government control over the entire economy of a country with no private enterprise or businesses or a stock market permitted .
In communism, the government controls everything - agriculture, manufacturing , distribution of goods and services , salaries etc . All corporations are nationalized when a country becomes communist , as happened in Russia when the communists took the country over in 1917 .
There are no private stores , restaurants , etc . All of these are run and operated by the government . It's impossible for individual people to become wealthy .
Of course, this is a lousy and ridiculously inefficient economic system and results in scarcity of food , goods, manufactured products , etc . Which is why both Russia and China abandoned it years ago. They now have capitalist economies but are still totalitarian governments .
In America, conservatives mistake the existence of a social safety net for socialism, which supposedly inevitably leads to communism .
But a safety net is absolutely essential in any country that calls itself civilized . You cannot allow people who are down on their luck to starve and die on the streets . You cannot allow people to die from easily treatable diseases and ailments because they can't afford medical care .
You cannot allow people who have lost their jobs to lose their homes and live on the streets .
You cannot expect to have a good supply of doctors , engineers , scientists , inventors etc if getting a college education, going to medical and law school is too expensive for young people who don't have wealthy parents .
You cannot allow children who are born to poor parents to live in cold, filthy housing , to grow up hungry and malnourished , etc .
This is why the Republican party and Trump are so bad for America . They have failed to provide an adequate safety net for so many Americans . We DO have too many poor and hungry people, especially in emote rural areas . Including children .
College is much to expensive . So are food, housing and health care . Our safety net exists, but is woefully inadequate and the Republicans have been relentlessly chipping away at it for decades .
Trump is only making things worse now .
No, America is not headed toward "socialism ". It's headed for total laissez-faire capitalism - a zero sum game where winners take all and losers are doomed . A system where the CEOs of the big corporations are the de facto government , and congress is in its pay and does what they tell them to .
This isn't even real capitalism . Its pseudo capitalism . In communist Russia and China, the government oppressed people , controlled them and exploited them and kept them poor .
In America now, the CEOs of the big corporations are this . It's a no win situation .
Western Europe, Scandinavia, Canada, Australia and other countries have found a middle way .
They have capitalist economies , but the government and the private sector cooperate in order to prevent mass poverty and to allow people to do well and to live secure lives . This kind of capitalism WORKS .
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Conservatives in America use the terms socialism and communism so vaguely and loosely they have lost all meaning and are now nothing but frightening sounding buzz words used to frighten gullible, ignorant, naive and poorly educated people .
No, socialism is not the same as communism .
That is Fake News.
Communism is government control over the entire economy of a country with no private enterprise or businesses or a stock market permitted .
In other words: Communism and Socialism are the same.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
Conservatives in America use the terms socialism and communism so vaguely and loosely they have lost all meaning and are now nothing but frightening sounding buzz words used to frighten gullible, ignorant, naive and poorly educated people .
No, socialism is not the same as communism . Communism is government control over the entire economy of a country with no private enterprise or businesses or a stock market permitted .
In communism, the government controls everything - agriculture, manufacturing , distribution of goods and services , salaries etc . All corporations are nationalized when a country becomes communist , as happened in Russia when the communists took the country over in 1917 .
There are no private stores , restaurants , etc . All of these are run and operated by the government . It's impossible for individual people to become wealthy .
Of course, this is a lousy and ridiculously inefficient economic system and results in scarcity of food , goods, manufactured products , etc . Which is why both Russia and China abandoned it years ago. They now have capitalist economies but are still totalitarian governments .
In America, conservatives mistake the existence of a social safety net for socialism, which supposedly inevitably leads to communism .
But a safety net is absolutely essential in any country that calls itself civilized . You cannot allow people who are down on their luck to starve and die on the streets . You cannot allow people to die from easily treatable diseases and ailments because they can't afford medical care .
You cannot allow people who have lost their jobs to lose their homes and live on the streets .
You cannot expect to have a good supply of doctors , engineers , scientists , inventors etc if getting a college education, going to medical and law school is too expensive for young people who don't have wealthy parents .
You cannot allow children who are born to poor parents to live in cold, filthy housing , to grow up hungry and malnourished , etc .
This is why the Republican party and Trump are so bad for America . They have failed to provide an adequate safety net for so many Americans . We DO have too many poor and hungry people, especially in emote rural areas . Including children .
College is much to expensive . So are food, housing and health care . Our safety net exists, but is woefully inadequate and the Republicans have been relentlessly chipping away at it for decades .
Trump is only making things worse now .
No, America is not headed toward "socialism ". It's headed for total laissez-faire capitalism - a zero sum game where winners take all and losers are doomed . A system where the CEOs of the big corporations are the de facto government , and congress is in its pay and does what they tell them to .
This isn't even real capitalism . Its pseudo capitalism . In communist Russia and China, the government oppressed people , controlled them and exploited them and kept them poor .
In America now, the CEOs of the big corporations are this . It's a no win situation .
Western Europe, Scandinavia, Canada, Australia and other countries have found a middle way .
They have capitalist economies , but the government and the private sector cooperate in order to prevent mass poverty and to allow people to do well and to live secure lives . This kind of capitalism WORKS .

You once again got every single thing you said wrong. How do you manage that with all the information there is on line and available through libraries?
 
Top