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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    The Fourteenth Amendment requires states to respect our rights outlined in the Bill of Rights. Sounds like you're twisting the Fourteenth Amendment to justify violating people's rights.

    Fourteenth Amendment

    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

    Please show me where the Fourteenth Amendment requires the States to respect our rights outlined in the Bill of Rights.
    I can't find that anywhere.

    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
    But it doesn't matter what you and I say; the Supreme Court and other federal courts have repeatedly held that the 14th Amendment means that states have to conform to the Bill of Rights as well.
    Like I said: It sounds like some sinister people have twisted the actual text of the Fourteenth Amendment in order to invalidate the Bill of Rights.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by The Horn View Post
      more and more people are abandoning Christianity because they no longer believe in it .
      If the founders could somehow come back today , they would be overjoyed to see this religious diversity .


      The funniest thing about your statement is that you actually believe it.
      Learn to read what is written.

      _____
      The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
      ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
        [INDENT][BOX]
        Please show me where the Fourteenth Amendment requires the States to respect our rights outlined in the Bill of Rights.
        I can't find that anywhere.
        So far, every federal court, including the Supreme Court found it.

        This is it:
        No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

        Whatever rights are in the Constitution, cannot be abridged by any state.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
          So far, every federal court, including the Supreme Court found it.

          This is it:
          No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

          Whatever rights are in the Constitution, cannot be abridged by any state.
          Nothing about the Bill of Rights there.
          Laws are supposed to be interpreted according to what they actually say, not according to what is never said.
          Learn to read what is written.

          _____
          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by The Horn View Post
            Christianity was pretty much the only religion in America in the founder's day .
            except for all those pesky non-Christian natives, eh?


            Originally posted by The Horn View Post
            If the founders could somehow come back today , they would be overjoyed to see this religious diversity .
            well, no

            Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

            John Adams
            and many many more

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
              Nothing about the Bill of Rights there.
              Laws are supposed to be interpreted according to what they actually say, not according to what is never said.
              No, I see the logic here and he is right this does extend the Bill of Rights down to the states. The Bill of Rights is a restriction on the Federal Government to protect those rights of US Citizens enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Thus it is part of the privileges and immunities of a citizen of the United States. The first line of the Amendment is "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." This is actually a much better wording than simply saying 'Bill of Rights' as it includes all rights and other protections provided to such citizens, not just the enumerated ones. Technically the ninth and tenth amendments would do that too but this removes any ambiguity.
              "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

              Comment


              • #37
                No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

                Whatever rights are in the Constitution, cannot be abridged by any state.

                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                Nothing about the Bill of Rights there.
                The Bill of Rights is just a term. What matters is the section that Amendment 14 forbids the states from abridging any right enjoyed by a citizen of the United States, those being defined by the first ten amendments.

                No way to wiggle around that clause. The 14th Amendment extends the Bill of Rights to the state governments as well.

                Denial will do you nothing whatsoever.







                Laws are supposed to be interpreted according to what they actually say, not according to what is never said.[/QUOTE]

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
                  No, I see the logic here and he is right this does extend the Bill of Rights down to the states. The Bill of Rights is a restriction on the Federal Government to protect those rights of US Citizens enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Thus it is part of the privileges and immunities of a citizen of the United States. The first line of the Amendment is "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." This is actually a much better wording than simply saying 'Bill of Rights' as it includes all rights and other protections provided to such citizens, not just the enumerated ones. Technically the ninth and tenth amendments would do that too but this removes any ambiguity.
                  The Bill of Rights is not a list of "privileges or immunities".

                  The Bill of Rights is a set of restrictions imposed upon the Federal government to prevent it from usurping the sovereignty of the citizens of the individual States and the sovereignty of the individual States.

                  You are misreading the Fourteenth Amendment.
                  Learn to read what is written.

                  _____
                  The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                  ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

                    Whatever rights are in the Constitution, cannot be abridged by any state.
                    The Constitution does not grant "rights".
                    The Fourteenth Amendment says that the States cannot make or enforce laws that abridge the PRIVILEGES or IMMUNITIES of citizens.
                    Nothing about "rights" there at all.

                    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                    The Bill of Rights is just a term. What matters is the section that Amendment 14 forbids the states from abridging any right enjoyed by a citizen of the United States, those being defined by the first ten amendments.
                    "privileges or immunities" are not "rights"

                    Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                    No way to wiggle around that clause.
                    So why are you trying to wiggle around the clause by removing the words of the Amendment and substituting your own?
                    Learn to read what is written.

                    _____
                    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post


                      The funniest thing about your statement is that you actually believe it.
                      What makes you think the founders would have had any objection to the religious diversity which exists in America today ? They wouldn't have had any objections at all .

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                        ...
                        So why are you trying to wiggle around the clause by removing the words of the Amendment and substituting your own?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by The Horn View Post
                          What makes you think the founders would have had any objection to the religious diversity which exists in America today ? They wouldn't have had any objections at all .
                          There is a difference between not having any objections about religious diversity and being overjoyed to see religious diversity.
                          Learn to read what is written.

                          _____
                          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The Fourteenth Amendment says: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;"

                            According to the SJW NPCs, "A straight, white cisgender male has straight privilege, white privilege, cis privilege and male privilege."

                            It is therefore unconstitutional for a State to make or enforce any law that abridges (cuts short) straight privilege, white privilege, cis privilege, or male privilege.

                            Some people on this thread think that privileges are Constitutional Rights.
                            If that is so, then straight privilege, white privilege, cis privilege, and male privilege are all Constitutional Rights.
                            Learn to read what is written.

                            _____
                            The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                            ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                              The Constitution does not grant "rights".
                              As you now realize, the 14th Amendment requires the states to respect the rights listed in the first ten amendments.

                              The Fourteenth Amendment says that the States cannot make or enforce laws that abridge the PRIVILEGES or IMMUNITIES of citizens.
                              Yes.

                              The primary author of the Privileges or Immunities Clause was Congressman John Bingham of Ohio.

                              This language closely tracked the existing language in the Privileges and Immunities Clause. On February 28, 1866, Bingham expressed his opinion that this draft language would give Congress power to "secure to the citizens of each State all the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States in the several States", and he added that, "The proposition pending before the House is simply a proposition to arm the Congress…with the power to enforce the bill of rights as it stands in the constitution today. It hath that extent—no more…If the State laws do not interfere, those immunities follow under the Constitution".
                              http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lw....html#anchor39

                              So the intent of the Amendment is absolutely clear, as the courts have repeatedly confirmed. As you now understand, the author of the clause intended it to apply the Bill of Rights to the states, and explicitly presented it for a vote on that understanding.

                              Nothing about "rights" there at all.
                              Nice try.

                              "privileges or immunities" are not "rights"
                              See above. No way to wiggle out of it.

                              So why are you trying to wiggle around the clause by removing the words of the Amendment and substituting your own?
                              Nice try. The courts have supported the intent of the people who drafted the amendment. Not much chance of you changing that with a new interpretation, is there?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                                The Bill of Rights is not a list of "privileges or immunities".

                                The Bill of Rights is a set of restrictions imposed upon the Federal government to prevent it from usurping the sovereignty of the citizens of the individual States and the sovereignty of the individual States.

                                You are misreading the Fourteenth Amendment.
                                So a US citizen does NOT have immunity from the state forcing religion on him or interfering in his religious beliefs?
                                "Repubs must not allow [The President] to subvert the Constitution of the US for his own benefit & because he is unable to negotiate w/ Congress," Donald Trump

                                Comment

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