What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

Jonahdog

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Banned
I have something to offer on this, but it comes from a completely different angle than anyone else on this thread seems to have taken.

I have been a "denier" of the politically pushed narrative by the left for a long time. It just doesn't make sense to me. The earth is too much of a self-correcting system for what they allege to be true. However, in the last couple of weeks I ran across something that is very interesting on this subject. I'll give a couple of links and let people decide for themselves whether or not they buy into it. As for myself, I think it looks pretty credible.

What I'm speaking to is geoengineering done by multiple governments around the world. It appears that this has been going on for around 70 years on some level with a massive increase in it in the last few decades, and it is having a massive effect on our climate and our health.

This first link is to a video interview with a guy by the name of Dane Wigington on usawatchdog.com. The second is a link to Wigington's site. On it there is an incredible amount of documentation for what he purports. I have downloaded about 40 of the documents that Wigington has on his site and am in the process of studying them and researching what he provides. He provides a lot of scientific, government, and academic evidence to back his conclusions. His site is pretty large so expect, if you're interested in learning if he is really credible, to spend quite a bit of time learning.

If Wigington is right, there is a lot of work for both Christians and non-Christians to do to respond to this. For me this is my first attempt to spread the word on this. Spend some time and see if you think this is credible or not, and if you do, start conversations on it with people you know as it will take a lot of political pressure from we the people to stop what is going on.

https://usawatchdog.com/climate-engineering-is-planetary-omnicide-dane-wigington/

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

Chem trail conspiracy!!!!!
 

gcthomas

New member
Chem trail conspiracy!!!!!

Yeah, the chemtrails! I just watched the 'proof' of chemtrails in a video clip that claims to show the spraying being turnde on and off, but which is simply the planes moving from an area with conditions that produce wingtip vortex contrails to an area which doesn't. It really is amazing how a lack of knowledge in some people is filled by exciting folk theories that are so obvioiusly nothing but hot air to the rest of us.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Yeah, the chemtrails! I just watched the 'proof' of chemtrails in a video clip that claims to show the spraying being turnde on and off, but which is simply the planes moving from an area with conditions that produce wingtip vortex contrails to an area which doesn't. It really is amazing how a lack of knowledge in some people is filled by exciting folk theories that are so obvioiusly nothing but hot air to the rest of us.

I lived in Orange County California in the late 80s when they were spraying the whole county for fruit flies. Those were some real chemtrails!! The black helicopters would fly low over our neighborhood in formation, and we were all supposed to stay indoors and preferably keep our cars garaged. I guess it helped me to want to clean out our garage enough to get the cars in!
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
It's pretty plain that nobody who responded here to my post has spent any time at all looking at the evidence I linked to.

1. [sarcasm] The US government has never conducted harmful operations against it's own citizens.[/sarcasm]
2. There is on-the-record testimony before the US Senate from back in the early 1970s that the US military was already capable of storm system creation, drought modification, changing weather patterns, storm steering, earthquake creation and suppression, lightning modification, fog creation and dissipation, etc.... [sarcasm] That the same testimony was already speaking specifically to climate modification being possible doesn't mean anything at all.[/sarcasm]
3. [sarcasm] US weapons technology has basically been at a standstill since the 1970s. [/sarcasm]
4. [sarcasm] The worst place to hide anything is in plain sight. [/sarcasm]
5. [sarcasm] There has never been a government involved in a conspiracy against its own people since the beginning of time. No siree. Politicians and government bureaucrats have a neverending history of being pure as the driven snow. Corruption has never been a part of any government.[/sarcasm]
 

Derf

Well-known member
Barbarian checks...

NASA surface temperature anomaly data:
2000 57
2001 67
2002 80
2003 77
2004 69
2005 88
2006 77
2007 86
2008 65
2009 80
2010 93
2011 79
2012 77
2013 82
2014 88
2015 98
2016 125

Mother nature certainly seems to be a cooling denier.

I looked up the phrase NASA surface temperature anomaly data, since you didn't give a reference, and landed here:

They had an interesting graphic on the site which showed a timelapse of temperatures around the globe from 1884 to 2016, and they describe it like this: "The time series below shows the five-year average variation of global surface temperatures." I've shown just the 1884 image, but you may go see the whole sequence.
1117_Gistemp_fahrenheit_4degrees2016update_nofades1884.jpg


I'm curious as to where the data came from, especially in Antarctica in 1884. Surely there were not temperature stations on Antarctica recording temperature that early?? And if not, did they extrapolate from somewhere nearby, like in the south Pacific, where missionaries were still being killed by the native populations just 20 years before (from "written" history--a biography of John G. Paton. Very intriguing story)? Can we really say that we have sufficient information to derive changes in temperature from those areas?

If not, what are these "data"? Are they "modeled" values? Keep in mind, I'm not saying they are wrong, but how comfortable are we saying that they are right, either?

This goes back to my post earlier about how well we can trust "analysis"? It is valuable, but also suspect. It is "rewritten" history. Not wrong, necessarily, but suspect, just as "written" history can be suspect.
 

Derf

Well-known member
It's pretty plain that nobody who responded here to my post has spent any time at all looking at the evidence I linked to.

1. [sarcasm] The US government has never conducted harmful operations against it's own citizens.[/sarcasm]
2. There is on-the-record testimony before the US Senate from back in the early 1970s that the US military was already capable of storm system creation, drought modification, changing weather patterns, storm steering, earthquake creation and suppression, lightning modification, fog creation and dissipation, etc.... [sarcasm] That the same testimony was already speaking specifically to climate modification being possible doesn't mean anything at all.[/sarcasm]
3. [sarcasm] US weapons technology has basically been at a standstill since the 1970s. [/sarcasm]
4. [sarcasm] The worst place to hide anything is in plain sight. [/sarcasm]
5. [sarcasm] There has never been a government involved in a conspiracy against its own people since the beginning of time. No siree. Politicians and government bureaucrats have a neverending history of being pure as the driven snow. Corruption has never been a part of any government.[/sarcasm]

And because these statements are false, that makes the chemtrail conspiracy true?
 

gcthomas

New member
It's pretty plain that nobody who responded here to my post has spent any time at all looking at the evidence I linked to.

1. [sarcasm] The US government has never conducted harmful operations against it's own citizens.[/sarcasm]
2. There is on-the-record testimony before the US Senate from back in the early 1970s that the US military was already capable of storm system creation, drought modification, changing weather patterns, storm steering, earthquake creation and suppression, lightning modification, fog creation and dissipation, etc.... [sarcasm] That the same testimony was already speaking specifically to climate modification being possible doesn't mean anything at all.[/sarcasm]
3. [sarcasm] US weapons technology has basically been at a standstill since the 1970s. [/sarcasm]
4. [sarcasm] The worst place to hide anything is in plain sight. [/sarcasm]
5. [sarcasm] There has never been a government involved in a conspiracy against its own people since the beginning of time. No siree. Politicians and government bureaucrats have a neverending history of being pure as the driven snow. Corruption has never been a part of any government.[/sarcasm]

So the fact I discussed a specific item from your links just passed you by, did it? Well, that wasn't worth my effort then, was it?
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
Thanks for that, Barbarian, but I only see a single point per month of each year. That is not enough data for the image I showed. Is there a more extensive database that your link was drawn from?

There is data from geosynchronous and polar-orbit satellites. NOAA has some information on those.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Barbarian checks...

NASA surface temperature anomaly data:
2000 57
2001 67
2002 80
2003 77
2004 69
2005 88
2006 77
2007 86
2008 65
2009 80
2010 93
2011 79
2012 77
2013 82
2014 88
2015 98
2016 125

Mother nature certainly seems to be a cooling denier.
How many times has that data been changed?
 

ClimateSanity

New member
There hasn't been one since. There was a cold spell in the Northern latitudes often called the Little Ice Age, but it wasn't actually an ice age of course. Which ice age were you thinking of?
You do realize the biggest changes in temperatures will be where there is more landmass?
 

ClimateSanity

New member
we are getting record high temperatures for the Earth each year

Let's say your record temperatures claim is correct. Which is more powerful? Water or carbon dioxide?



How much water have we put into the atmosphere through increased irrigation over the same time period?

17139cabe29deb4cef5a372f650c3925.gif


How do you know it's not the increase in temperatures that is causing the increase in carbon dioxide?
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
Let's say your record temperatures claim is correct. Which is more powerful? Water or carbon dioxide?

Water vapor absorbs specific wavelengths of infrared and because of the huge surface area of the oceans, the average humidity doesn't change very much. The reason that CO2has such a disproportionate effect on warming is that it absorbs infrared at wavelengths other greenhouse gases do not.

How much water have we put into the atmosphere through increased irrigation over the same time period?

Compared to ocean evaporation? Probably not measurable.

How do you know it's not the increase in temperatures that is causing the increase in carbon dioxide?

Because humans are dumping huge quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere. So that's not arguable.
 
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