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What if climate change is real and human caused--what should Christians do about it?

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  • So if the Arctic Sea ice is melting, why aren't sea levels rising?

    Stipe was unable to figure that out. Here's why:

    Ice floats because it expands as it cools and freezes. So if sea ice melts, it loses exactly the volume that rises above the sea. So it won't raise sea levels. Most of the sea level rise to date, is thermal expansion of the oceans. But now it's beginning to change as continental glaciers on Greenland and Antarctica are starting to melt. Those, being on land, will raise sea levels as they melt.

    The study also finds that the Greenland ice sheet may contain more ice, with a greater potential to raise global sea levels, than previous research has suggested—about 2.75 inches more, to be exact. Altogether, the new study suggests that the ice sheet has the potential to raise global sea levels by about 24.3 feet, should it melt entirely.

    But the new information about the interaction between ocean and ice along the Greenland coast may be the maps' most important contribution.

    "A lot of research has shown that intrusions of warm water are responsible for melting ice along the polar coastlines and that these intrusions are steered by the shape of the seafloor," said Jamin Greenbaum, an oceanography and geology expert at the University of Texas, Austin, who was not involved with the new study, in an email.

    It's mainly in the last few years that the ocean's melting influence on glaciers has come to the forefront of scientific attention, but scientists now recognize it as a major—if not the primary—contributor to ice loss in both Greenland and parts of Antarctica.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...the-bottom-up/
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    Comment


    • The polar ice is not shrinking, you people are nuts, global warming is a scam.....duh.

      Comment


      • Last edited by Stripe; January 15th, 2018, 01:22 PM.
        Where is the evidence for a global flood?
        E≈mc2
        "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

        "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
        -Bob B.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by THall View Post
          The polar ice is not shrinking,
          Well, let's take a look...

          Arctic sea ice extent for December 2017 averaged 11.75 million square kilometers (4.54 million square miles), the second lowest in the 1979 to 2017 satellite record. This was 1.09 million square kilometers (420,900 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average and 280,000 square kilometers (108,100 square miles) above the record low December extent recorded in 2016. Extent at the end of the month was below average in the far northern Atlantic Ocean and Barents Sea, slightly above average in western Hudson Bay, and continued to be below average in the Bering and Chukchi Seas. Near-average conditions prevailed along the eastern coast of Greenland and in the Sea of Okhotsk.
          http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

          So this year was second lowest in history, only higher than the lowest ever, measured in 2016.

          Here's how it's been going:


          Someone's had a little fun with your trust in them.

          you people are nuts, global warming is a scam.....duh.
          Here's how they fooled you with those repeated "recoveries":


          Not terribly clever, but good enough to fool some people.
          This message is hidden because ...

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          • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
            [video=QwviDPo4Rh4]https://youtu.be/QwviDPo4Rh4[/video]
            from the video



            --

            Comment


            • [MENTION=2801]way 2 go[/MENTION]

              Increased precipitation has long been predicted for Antarctica, which is why climatologists are not remotely surprised that snow accululation has increased overall.


              Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

              Comment


              • Warmer conditions at the poles should increase precipitation. Which is what the models predicted. However, the concern in Antarctica, is no more snow there.

                Larsen C Crack Is in Its Final Stages; Will Produce One of World's Largest Icebergs Ever Recorded
                A chunk of Antarctic ice the size of Delaware will soon break off and drift away to melt. Fortunately, an ice shelf is essentially a big tethered iceberg, so this won't markedly affect sea levels right away. However, when the ice shelves finally go away, the continental ice that will then melt is going to raise sea levels, much as the melting Greenland icecap is doing.

                https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14730
                This message is hidden because ...

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                • Originally posted by gcthomas View Post
                  [MENTION=2801]way 2 go[/MENTION]

                  Increased precipitation has long been predicted for Antarctica, which is why climatologists are not remotely surprised that snow accululation has increased overall.
                  Originally posted by The Barbarian View Post
                  Warmer conditions at the poles should increase precipitation. Which is what the models predicted. However, the concern in Antarctica, is no more snow there.

                  Larsen C Crack Is in Its Final Stages; Will Produce One of World's Largest Icebergs Ever Recorded
                  A chunk of Antarctic ice the size of Delaware will soon break off and drift away to melt. Fortunately, an ice shelf is essentially a big tethered iceberg, so this won't markedly affect sea levels right away. However, when the ice shelves finally go away, the continental ice that will then melt is going to raise sea levels, much as the melting Greenland icecap is doing.

                  https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14730
                  You deniers need to get your stories straight.

                  Are the ice shelves diminishing, or not?
                  Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                  E≈mc2
                  "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                  "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                  -Bob B.

                  Comment


                  • [MENTION=4167]Stripe[/MENTION], [MENTION=92]The Barbarian[/MENTION], [MENTION=14707]gcthomas[/MENTION], [MENTION=2801]way 2 go[/MENTION], [MENTION=14462]THall[/MENTION], @Lon. [MENTION=17235]Interplanner[/MENTION], [MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION].

                    Since this thread is supposed to be about what Christians should do about climate change assuming it is a fact, The debate about whether it is a fact or not is not really on topic, as interesting as it might be to some of us (including me), except as it helps us decide what things are appropriate to do about it.

                    So what should we do about about it?

                    Here's what one website says. I think it is a decent summary of some of the posts we've seen here, so I'd like to see what everybody thinks.


                    Most of us realise that if we are to avoid catastrophic events in the future – or indeed survive as a species on this planet – we must, at the very least, reduce greenhouse gas emissions. What has to be done? It’s simple. Reduce and eventually stop burning fossil fuels, the major source of greenhouse gasses, and do so as rapidly as possible. We recognize the need to plant trees to replace those cut down and to modify our diet by replacing meat with other similar tasting nutritious products enabling reduction of animal herds and their emissions. Yet action taken globally is just the opposite of these measures.


                    1. First of all, for Christians, is there anything wrong or immoral about doing any of the above? Does God's word tell us not to do any of these things? Biblical references would be much appreciated.
                    2. Second, does God's word tell us to do any of these things? (Again, references appreciated)
                    3. Third, do these sections of God's word apply to us today? Why or why not?


                    Let's take the fossil fuel reduction as a starter. The website I referenced stated that a carbon tax is one way to reduce the use of fossil fuels. This would work in two ways, supposedly: 1. Make it cheaper to emit less carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases, and 2. Provide funds for someone to use to find other ways to curb emissions.

                    For my #1 above, is there anything immoral about levying a tax such as this? It would supposedly tax the larger emitters more, if applied equally (these things aren't always equally applied). If large emitters are the poorer nations, and it causes their standard of living to fall more than richer nations, including dropping more of their citizens into poverty, to where some of their people begin to starve, I'd say it's a problem. I'd also be concerned with the taxing authority--who gets the benefit and how is that decided? How do we prevent corruption in a government entity that is of a higher authority than our own.

                    Taxing is always a matter of a higher power taking from someone under its power. Thus, agreeing to such a commitment is a way of subjugating our nation to another authority. I don't necessarily have an issue with a nation that decides to do that, except that it doesn't usually turn out that good. Israel often paid money to other nations to keep from being invaded, or after being invaded by taxes levied on them. Is this any different? In the former case (to keep from being invaded), it was wrong when Israel turned to other nations for protection instead of relying on God.

                    In our case, though, we would give up a democratic-republic form of government, enshrined in our constitution, for...something else. What that something else actually is remains to be seen.

                    That doesn't mean we as a nation can't take some of the principles and use them, including implementing a US-only carbon tax. Some of the same issues will remain, but not the giving up of our sovereignty.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Derf View Post
                      Most of us realise that if we are to avoid catastrophic events in the future – or indeed survive as a species on this planet – we must, at the very least, reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
                      For Christians, the Bible is important. The Bible says that while the Earth remains, we will always see seasons. The Bible says this world will be destroyed in fire.

                      There is nothing we can do about these things.

                      Therefore, for a Christian, carbon hype is a great big yawn.
                      Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                      E≈mc2
                      "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                      "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                      -Bob B.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                        For Christians, the Bible is important. The Bible says that while the Earth remains, we will always see seasons. The Bible says this world will be destroyed in fire.

                        There is nothing we can do about these things.

                        Therefore, for a Christian, carbon hype is a great big yawn.
                        If the livelihoods of people around the world are threatened by changing climates which will change water supplies and harvest success and the amount of agricultural land (this is happening already) are not the business of Christians, then who's is it?

                        Love thy neighbour seems like a fair-weather requirement for you, Stripe.


                        Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gcthomas View Post
                          If the livelihoods of people around the world are threatened by changing climates which will change water supplies and harvest success and the amount of agricultural land (this is happening already) are not the business of Christians, then who's is it?

                          Love thy neighbour seems like a fair-weather requirement for you, Stripe.


                          Wake us up when you're done with the attempts at emotional manipulation.
                          Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                          E≈mc2
                          "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                          "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                          -Bob B.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stripe View Post


                            Wake us up when you're done with the attempts at emotional manipulation.
                            Get back to me when you develop the spine to care for the creation on which we all depend. Act like a Christian.


                            Self appointed representative of the reality based community. [Send complaints to /dev/null.]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                              For Christians, the Bible is important. The Bible says that while the Earth remains, we will always see seasons. The Bible says this world will be destroyed in fire.

                              There is nothing we can do about these things.

                              Therefore, for a Christian, carbon hype is a great big yawn.
                              You're in the Open Theist club. Is there any part of Open Theism that can apply here? [added:] Even if the world's ending in fire is predetermined, is its timing also? Is it possible that the driving force of climate change, [added:] and possibly the end of the world, is due to the activity or inactivity of Christians? If we are supposed to "occupy" until He comes (Luk 19:13), does that mean we sit by and just let things happen (Luk 19:20)?

                              If that doesn't apply (I assume you'll set me straight on that), what about Paul's admonition to obey the proper authorities, Rom 13:2,6? According to Paul, we need pay the taxes assigned to us. I guess we can include carbon tax, once it is established? Unless it is an evil thing they are telling us to do (Acts 5:29). Shouldn't we be able to at least step up and offer a better scheme?

                              [MENTION=14707]gcthomas[/MENTION]'s point is a good one--if we are not loving our neighbor by trashing the environment, then are we really Christian? If this is not the case, then please answer his point (like by pointing out how the proposed solutions hurt neighbors as much or more than help then, perhaps).

                              On the other hand, if we are sure that just because the seasons will continue, there will be no effect of our activities on the environment, we should be able to show it by making predictions about the environment--and seeing them fulfilled. I'm not sure what these would look like, but I would like to suggest that if people follow God's will, that they will not suffer from the effects of climate change. The rain does fall on the just and the unjust.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Derf View Post
                                @Tambora.

                                Since this thread is supposed to be about what Christians should do about climate change assuming it is a fact,
                                As a Christian, I already have the story of the most horrific time that will ever be in human history (Matt 24:21), and everything is going to turn out A-OK for planet Earth.

                                I don't think man can do anything to destroy the planet anymore than I think anything man did in the days of Noah caused a natural reaction of the world being flooded.
                                To me, scripture seems to make it clear that when the wrath comes, the entire world is going to KNOW it is GOD doing it.
                                That implies that it cannot be something that could be racked-up to some natural occurrence that man causes.

                                As for the taxing, that gets a big NO from me.


                                We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                                They already know monsters exist.
                                We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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