There Are No Rules In War?

[resodko]

Most Germans were civilian out ordinary conscripts, just like the Americans, and many no different. After the war, we helped feed and house the Germans and helped to rebuild their economy, government and infrastructure.

It was the leaders we tried, along with those who had tortured and abused detainees.

you must have misunderstood me

i'll reword it:

in what way should we have shown our "love" for the germans who attempted to subjugate all of europe to their will and wipe out the jews?

note that i am referring to those germans who were not "innocent civilians" or "ordinary conscripts"


those who were herding the jews into the showers - how should we have shown our "love" for them?

 

[resodko]

Borrowed from a blog I happened across.

the best way to defeat an enemy is to destroy his will to resist, as quickly as possible

 

[Granite]

Borrowed from a blog I happened across.

Not sure what you're driving at here.

 

[champdefrene]

they did in ww2, at least with our allies :idunno:

Which is why the Geneva Conventions were extended to cover civilians.

should a munitions factory be a fair target?

what about the civilians who work there?

The three principles of international humanitarian law are distinction, proportionality and precaution.

• Distinction: an army must distinguish between military and civilian objects. A military object is one that is being used for military gain, like a munitions factory.
• Proportion: when attacking a military object, the army should limit its attack to the minimum required to be effective.
• Precaution: an army should take all reasonable precautions to prevent civilian deaths, injuries or destruction of civilian objects.

As for your example, it's a case of balancing the aim (preventing the munitions factory operating) with the possible civilian consequences.

A good analysis of proportionality is in the Final Report to the Prosecutor by the Committee Established to Review the NATO Bombing Campaign Against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia:

The main problem with the principle of proportionality is not whether or not it exists but what it means and how it is to be applied. It is relatively simple to state that there must be an acceptable relation between the legitimate destructive effect and undesirable collateral effects. For example, bombing a refugee camp is obviously prohibited if its only military significance is that people in the camp are knitting socks for soldiers. Conversely, an air strike on an ammunition dump should not be prohibited merely because a farmer is plowing a field in the area. Unfortunately, most applications of the principle of proportionality are not quite so clear cut. It is much easier to formulate the principle of proportionality in general terms than it is to apply it to a particular set of circumstances because the comparison is often between unlike quantities and values. One cannot easily assess the value of innocent human lives as opposed to capturing a particular military objective.

The International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia established what is now known as the reasonable military commander test (para 58 of Galić).

 

[jgarden]

in what way should we have shown our "love" for the germans while they attempted to subjugate all of europe to their will and wipe out the jews?

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matt. 5:38-39)

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. (Matt. 5:43-48, Luke 6:27-28)

Put your sword back in its place...for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. (Matt. 26:52)

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Matt. 5:9)

The early Christians were forced to endure 3 centuries of persecution and martyrdom under the Roman Empire - and yet there is no record of them resisting or retaliating.

In fact, early Christian leaders admonished their followers not to join the military or take up arms to defend themselves - a response that separated them from other religions and faiths.

• “Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse.”
~ St. Cyprian (200AD – 258AD)

• “It is absolutely forbidden to repay evil with evil.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD

• “Hitherto I have served you as a soldier; allow me now to become a soldier to God. Let the man who is to serve you receive your donative. I am a soldier of Christ; it is not permissible for me to fight.”
~ Martin of Tours (315AD – 397AD)

• “Above all Christians are not allowed to correct by violence sinful wrongdoings.”
~ Clement of Alexandria (150AD – 214AD)

• “The Christian does not hurt even his enemy.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)

• “I am a Christian. He who answers thus has declared everything at once—his country, profession, family; the believer belongs to no city on earth but to the heavenly Jerusalem.”
~ St. John Chrysostom (347AD – 407AD)

• “None of us offers resistance when he is seized, or avenges himself for your unjust violence, although our people are numerous and plentiful…it is not lawful for us to hate, and so we please God more when we render no requital for injury…we repay your hatred with kindness.”
~ St. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage (died 258AD)

• “Only without the sword can the Christian wage war: the Lord has abolished the sword.”
~ Tertullian (160AD – 220AD)

• “You cannot demand military service of Christians any more than you can of priests. We do not go forth as soldiers with the Emperor even if he demands this.”
~ Origen (185AD – 254AD)

http://enemylove.com/40-early-church-quotes-on-violence-enemy-love-patriotism/

 

[aikido7]

i gave you information on seven leaders of the japanese who were executed for war crimes


can you post (not link to - do a copy and paste) information on other japanese soldiers who were executed for waterboarding?

If I did I doubt you are equipped to re-evaluate your own beliefs and agenda, but here goes:

"Decades before it started waterboarding terrorism suspects, the US government had dramatically different standards for what it considered torture, particularly when it was being done to our soldiers in World War II. Recently released documents detail how the United States charged hundreds of Japanese military officials and prison guards with war crimes for abuses against American prisoners of war, including waterboarding."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

As long as Christian militias are slaughtering Muslim civilians wholesale, I cannot abide by the simplistic formula that "we are moral and justified" and "they're NOT.

If you watch FOX "News" you might acknowledge that these facts, evidence and data are NEVER mentioned there.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Then you agree they should be killed by any means necessary to rid the world of their evil, yes?

You are presenting the options as either support ISIS or throw moral considerations out the window in order to get rid of them. The world is not as simple as you think that it is.

US intervention created this beast. You "had to do something" and you unleashed a monster that was worse than the monster that you destroyed the first time. Neoconservatives totally fail to understand anything about the Middle East, thus they will continue to fail every time they attempt to do anything.

 

[aikido7]

Neoconservatives totally fail to understand anything about the Middle East, thus they will continue to fail every time they attempt to do anything.

They also seem to understand nothing of history and human behavior. Bush clearly thought the Shi'ites and the Sunnis were groups that were apart from the Muslim religion!

I knew early on that throwing rocks at what was clearly a hornet's nest would have dire consequences, the least of which is a focused entity that calls itself "Isis."

Thanks Bush, Cheney, Rice and others!

You were unable or unwilling to see what was in front of your own noses. One month before 9/11, Bush was handed a PDF (Presidential Daily Briefing) that warned "...bin Laden determined to strike in the U.S."

In a clear dereliction of presidential duty Bush did not even say anything to his law enforcement head John Ashcroft about terrorism.
It was seen as not even a problem, regardless of the terrorist attacks that paralyzed us since Reagan.

When nearly 300 marines were killed by a suicide bombing in Lebanon, Reagan pulled out our troops immediately. The attack on the U.S. Cole, the killing of the Jewish man on the cruise ship and many other instances of horrific terrorist violence around the world seemed to make no impression on our government.

It reminds me of posting scriptural evidence for my own religious beliefs and opinions. The quotes and the patterns I try to explain do not even register with most.