Church in America, Wake Up!
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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annabenedetti
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Roughly 15 minutes in: After showing photos of Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib and a clip of Joe Biden saying he'd end the Muslim ban, the pastor goes on:
"I share this with you not to disparage Muslim Americans... that we as Christians, if we want religious freedom, the first amendment, then we want that for all faiths. That is America. Everybody should have the freedom to worship in the United States of America. But what I am saying, is that if as Christians somehow you believe the lie that faith and politics don't mix, that pastors should stay out of that, it's just too divisive, then by your apathy and your reluctance, you are actually helping to advance the doctrine and dogma of other world religions and of secular humanism, to influence this nation rather than the values and virtues of Christianity. That's what's happening. Wake up! They're not asleep...
"I share this with you not to disparage Muslim Americans... that we as Christians, if we want religious freedom, the first amendment, then we want that for all faiths. That is America. Everybody should have the freedom to worship in the United States of America. But what I am saying, is that if as Christians somehow you believe the lie that faith and politics don't mix, that pastors should stay out of that, it's just too divisive, then by your apathy and your reluctance, you are actually helping to advance the doctrine and dogma of other world religions and of secular humanism, to influence this nation rather than the values and virtues of Christianity. That's what's happening. Wake up! They're not asleep...
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Yeah, I shook my head at that bit as well. I stuck it out till about the 45 minute mark and that was enough. Just another MAGA piece effectively...
annabenedetti
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"God has been at the center of our religious freedom... from the very beginning"
How does that mesh with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion?"
How does that mesh with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion?"
annabenedetti
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I'm only at the 23 minute mark, but I wanted to listen to it in light of the book I just read. I'll let you know if you missed anything.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I'm only at the 23 minute mark, but I wanted to listen to it in light of the book I just read. I'll let you know if you missed anything.
:thumb:
annabenedetti
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Money quote, 25+ min., playing down Jefferson's separation of church and state, saying it was "twisted to remove the church from any government influence:"
"The first amendment was written, not to keep the church out of government, but to keep the government out of the church."
*applause ensues*
"The first amendment was written, not to keep the church out of government, but to keep the government out of the church."
*applause ensues*
annabenedetti
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He misrepresented Margaret Sanger in a way she often is, as "wanting to exterminate the Negro population." She was actually saying she didn't want to be seen as trying to do that.
Margaret Sanger was pro-contraception, anti-abortion.
Here's her entire letter, for context:
https://libex.smith.edu/omeka/files/original/d6358bc3053c93183295bf2df1c0c931.pdf
Margaret Sanger was pro-contraception, anti-abortion.
Here's her entire letter, for context:
https://libex.smith.edu/omeka/files/original/d6358bc3053c93183295bf2df1c0c931.pdf
annabenedetti
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So, the pastor was invited by Trump to the White House, (drops some names), and talks to a Black minister, there also, Bishop Kelvin Cobaris, one of those who laid hands on Trump in the Oval Office and now has access Trump on a regular basis but in the process has lost many members of his church because of his affiliation with Trump. He seems a conservative pastor, and not surprisingly, aligns more with the GOP than the Democratic party although he's not thrilled with either. He comes across and genuine and caring, but it seemed clear the pastor wants the congregation to know that not all blacks are aligned with either the Democratic party or BLM.
Next the pastor goes on to cherry-pick various statements from the platforms of the GOP and Democratic party and I'm not interested in following any of those to their context.
Pastor ends with a clear, implicit direction to the congregation that the only vote they can make in good conscience is for Trump because the Democratic party is led by the devil. (About the 58 min. mark or so.) "...a liberal progressive agenda influenced by spiritual forces of evil that if allowed to progress will be the demise of America."
Nothing in the sermon was surprising, nor was any of it new. But the tax-exempt status of churches needs to end.
Next the pastor goes on to cherry-pick various statements from the platforms of the GOP and Democratic party and I'm not interested in following any of those to their context.
Pastor ends with a clear, implicit direction to the congregation that the only vote they can make in good conscience is for Trump because the Democratic party is led by the devil. (About the 58 min. mark or so.) "...a liberal progressive agenda influenced by spiritual forces of evil that if allowed to progress will be the demise of America."
Nothing in the sermon was surprising, nor was any of it new. But the tax-exempt status of churches needs to end.
I agree. Conservative pastors, who would love to talk about political issues, don't because they want to keep their tax exempt status. If that status is removed then there will no longer be a threat to keep those pastors mouths shut. They will then be free to influence their congregations politically.
I doubt it was your intention but you're doing the Lord's work here annabenedetti.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
:thumb:
annabenedetti
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You shouldn't have doubted me, Jefferson, since I wouldn't have a problem with that arrangement at all.
With government hand-outs, comes government control. That's how it is. BTW, Madison argued that tax-exempt churches violated the Constitution, so there's some sense in the idea.
The Berean
Well-known member
That sure was a long winded sermon just to say vote for Trump. LoL!
You realize that the vast majority of pastors will influence their congregations to vote Republican, right?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Vote for Trump! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
annabenedetti
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Haven't they always? That's not news, Jefferson. You really must think that the average Democrat or Democrat-leaning moderate, liberal, progressive, must be some kind of left-wing anarcho-commie. Hint: anarchists aren't Dems any more than they're GOP. Democrats are your neighbor or your delivery driver or your pharmacist or cashier or you get the idea. We have the religious freedom in this country to go to the church of our beliefs, listen to the spiritual leader of our choosing. I don't want that to change, those rights are important to all of us. But if a pastor is going to pretend to believe in religious freedom and then warn his congregation that there are Muslims in Congress, danger, beware, the dark forces are prowling... And when he outright argues that the church should, and must, be involved in government... don't you see the problem here? He wants that, because he assumes it would be his religion in government. And what if it were not? That's why he's afraid of Muslims in Congress, danger, beware, the dark forces are prowling... No. Just keep religion out of government and if you want government out of religion, stop politicking and expecting to maintain a tax-exempt status.