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  • Vaccine trial unmitigated disaster

    A vaccine trial for a vaccine created by Americal in Ukraine has resulted in the deaths of 1/3 of the participants and the hospitalization of more than half the guinea pigs in this trial.

    LUGANSK, July 17 (Lugansk Media Centre) – Four Ukrainian service members died after COVID-19 vaccine trials, said LPR People's Militia press service officer Alexander Mazeikin.

    The total of 15 volunteers were exposed to the vaccine and medication produced by Americal virologists in the Kharkov region. Eight of the volunteers were soon transferred to intensive care units, three were put on ventilation.

    "The IC unit could not treat them adequately as the components of the vaccine were not known to them. As a result, five patients, four of them Ukrainian army service members, died."
    The rest of the article can be found at the following link.

    http://en.lug-info.com/news/one/four...ne-trial-21136


    “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

    “One and God make a majority.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

  • #2
    Sorry to hear this. The details aren't very clear. Let's hope for better success in other places!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by chair View Post
      Sorry to hear this. The details aren't very clear. Let's hope for better success in other places!
      ... because Corona virii vaccines have never worked in the past and treating this go-around like every other in history won't make the political gains you want!
      Good things come to those who shoot straight.

      Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
        ... because Corona virii vaccines have never worked in the past and treating this go-around like every other in history won't make the political gains you want!
        Hopefully they'll manage to put together a good vaccine. If not, we'll have to manage the epidemic as best as we can, with social distancing, protecting vulnerable populations, and wearing masks- while keeping the economy going as best as we can. That's what is happening in most places right now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by chair View Post
          ... we'll have to manage the epidemic as best as we can ....

          Herd immunity, remember?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by chair View Post

            Hopefully they'll manage to put together a good vaccine. If not, we'll have to manage the epidemic as best as we can, with social distancing, protecting vulnerable populations, and wearing masks- while keeping the economy going as best as we can. That's what is happening in most places right now.
            There are many separate researches for a vaccine taking place at this time.
            oxford university's is still holding up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by chair View Post

              Hopefully they'll manage to put together a good vaccine. If not, we'll have to manage the epidemic as best as we can, with social distancing, protecting vulnerable populations, and wearing masks- while keeping the economy going as best as we can. That's what is happening in most places right now.
              "As best we can..."
              Here's a better idea: thrive (barring the government sticking their nose in things like they do in the medical industry) like we have through all the other pandemics in history, like Sweden at the very least.
              Good things come to those who shoot straight.

              Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ok doser View Post

                Herd immunity, remember?
                This is UK news, but it will be the case here as well:

                Coronavirus restrictions will remain if large numbers refuse vaccine

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
                  "As best we can..."
                  Here's a better idea: thrive (barring the government sticking their nose in things like they do in the medical industry) like we have through all the other pandemics in history, like Sweden at the very least.
                  1. How did "other pandemics" work out? Do we want to be there?
                  2. How is Sweden doing with the current one? Check the numbers yourself.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chair View Post
                    1. How did "other pandemics" work out?
                    In a pandemic, the ability to recover is more important than the ability to force the pandemic to be not as bad in the first place because chair cannot really control a virus as much as chair thinks. This pandemic, where it turns out it wasn't even as bad as a regular flu for the vast majority of workers, has been made a great deal worse because we ruined our ability to recover. Not only does that make the pandemic look worse than it is because of depression over being put under house arrest, but it hurt our ability to protect the demographic that has it a great deal worse than the regular flu.

                    Do we want to be there?
                    Yes. Herd immunity is the best way to recover. Go about your life, continuing to avoid the flu and other infectious diseases like you have been all your life. When you get sick treat the sickness quickly and stay away from other people. Keep the economy humming along as best you can and don't allow the government to suck resources from it which will make it worse. If there is a vaccine quickly, it will be because there was a society rich enough to pull it off. Kill that goose and there will be no more golden eggs available for the next pandemic. And even if you don't realize it, in the next pandemic which will be worse because of government action they won't blame themselves, they will blame you and "punish" you for your error.

                    And don't force people to get the vaccine because that will remove resources from the economy, and even worse it will set up a situation where your supposedly well meaning overlords will have to take care of you... and the most fearful phrase in the English language is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

                    2. How is Sweden doing with the current one? Check the numbers yourself.
                    Still on track as predicted. Unlike the wildly wrong predictions that the US, Britain, and a lot of other countries used to ruin the economy and set up structures to lord it over people more thoroughly in the future. They will have a bad "flu" season in the fall like they frequently have, but the people there are confident they have this pandemic beaten, and for good reason. Not only are they able to thrive (in the context of the pandemic), but they are also happier.

                    And please note, all the things other locked down and muzzled countries did should have made Sweden look *wildly* irresponsible and a killing field. But they aren't. They aren't as bad as the worst western country and only a little worse than the western countries with the best numbers. And when the next wave comes they will not only still have a thriving economy, but they will be happier living normal lives with some of the best numbers in the context of COVID.

                    But that brings up another point, which is that according to science, just about all western countries ended up about the same no matter what they did. Even the worst western countries are not all that far off the best ones. Ruining the economy and setting up structures for more central government control was never necessary and it will hurt people in the future like it always does.
                    Good things come to those who shoot straight.

                    Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yorzhik View Post
                      In a pandemic, the ability to recover is more important than the ability to force the pandemic to be not as bad in the first place because chair cannot really control a virus as much as chair thinks. This pandemic, where it turns out it wasn't even as bad as a regular flu for the vast majority of workers, has been made a great deal worse because we ruined our ability to recover. Not only does that make the pandemic look worse than it is because of depression over being put under house arrest, but it hurt our ability to protect the demographic that has it a great deal worse than the regular flu.


                      Yes. Herd immunity is the best way to recover. Go about your life, continuing to avoid the flu and other infectious diseases like you have been all your life. When you get sick treat the sickness quickly and stay away from other people. Keep the economy humming along as best you can and don't allow the government to suck resources from it which will make it worse. If there is a vaccine quickly, it will be because there was a society rich enough to pull it off. Kill that goose and there will be no more golden eggs available for the next pandemic. And even if you don't realize it, in the next pandemic which will be worse because of government action they won't blame themselves, they will blame you and "punish" you for your error.

                      And don't force people to get the vaccine because that will remove resources from the economy, and even worse it will set up a situation where your supposedly well meaning overlords will have to take care of you... and the most fearful phrase in the English language is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help.


                      Still on track as predicted. Unlike the wildly wrong predictions that the US, Britain, and a lot of other countries used to ruin the economy and set up structures to lord it over people more thoroughly in the future. They will have a bad "flu" season in the fall like they frequently have, but the people there are confident they have this pandemic beaten, and for good reason. Not only are they able to thrive (in the context of the pandemic), but they are also happier.

                      And please note, all the things other locked down and muzzled countries did should have made Sweden look *wildly* irresponsible and a killing field. But they aren't. They aren't as bad as the worst western country and only a little worse than the western countries with the best numbers. And when the next wave comes they will not only still have a thriving economy, but they will be happier living normal lives with some of the best numbers in the context of COVID.

                      But that brings up another point, which is that according to science, just about all western countries ended up about the same no matter what they did. Even the worst western countries are not all that far off the best ones. Ruining the economy and setting up structures for more central government control was never necessary and it will hurt people in the future like it always does.
                      I would add to this that the only reason to "flatten the curve" of an infectious disease is to extend the time it lasts. The longer people isolate the weaker their immune systems become and when they start to associate with other people again they open themselves up to getting infected by anything that comes around. Thus the governments and media have excuses to spread more fear and extend lockdowns and mask mandates because the ignorant people who live in such fear will basically beg them to take away their rights as citizens.

                      The only rational way to meet a pandemic like the coronavirus is to just go through it like Sweden has done. They met it, reached the level of immunity needed to make the virus go away, and now their entire country is booming economically. Plus they will not have to go through the extreme economic depression the rest of the world is descending into. They aren't going to starve to death because they are all broke and their internal delivery systems are destroyed.

                      The guys like the one you are responding to are so economically ignorant they can't understand that the financial impact of shutting down an economy is more destructive than a pandemic and will cost more lives in the long run.

                      It's simply amazing how willingly people are controlled and manipulated by the press and the governments.
                      “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
                      ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

                      “One and God make a majority.”
                      ― Frederick Douglass

                      Comment

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