When "BLM" doesn't matter...

Lon

Well-known member
So much for Free Speech and Freedom of Expression in America, then.
........... if I believe what you say, that is.
ALL freedoms have parameters. There is no such thing as running wild naked in the streets, freedom.


You seem to cling to any claims that might help to show that Mr Floyd was bad. You seem to forget/discard claims about his rehabilitation and the past records of those police officers. That looks strange.....
1) Meth in his system - not rehabilitated no matter what you say, it is a DIRECT violation of his parole. 2) Babies. Did you read the reporter in Portland? The one who said BLM is not about Black Lives? That its about cabin fever, angst, and irresponsibility? 3) ONLY 2 years ago, Floyd was involved in a heinous crime. HOW MUCH rehabilitation can 2 years do for somebody? :nono: Not much. Prison, except in Rhode Island (and voluntary) and a few other states, does not rehabilitate. It punishes. At the very least, you've had your history and civics lesson on America today.


I don't believe that for a moment. Many of the marches, demonstrations and movements that changed your country forever were certainly not issued with anything .......... I'm thinking iof the Civil Rights movement.
No, they obtained permits.

You wanted the teenagers who shot in to that vehicle to be arrested and fined?
They wouldn't get fined, Lon, they'd get tried for a much more serious crime than attract fines. They still will be, I reckon.
No, all of them. All of them without permits are illegal. We've had MANY peaceful marches, organized, responsible and LEGAL.



I am an onlooker. I will read any COMPLETE incident descriptions which you may have........ COMPLETE.
Good.

Wrong. Totally twisted idea.
Trials are to determine guilt........ or innocence!
Get it right.
Parsing to absurdity. You are just being contentious now over NO ARGUMENT. :doh:


The World will not stop in its determination because of the stupid and dreadful actions of a few youths armed with legal guns who were not trained, tested before they were allowed to have them. And they almost certainly won;'t be insured for 3rd party risks.
Right, not even a moments silence for those precious babies, or a "stop, wait a minute...Did a black man just kill another black man on THE DAY we started marching for their lives to matter????!!!" Nope. They didn't and you didn't. I cried for that father and the other for the mother and cried again for cold babies in the ground.

You should be ashamed, because you've all let this guns-awash situation continue...... the usual excuse is so that Americans can defend themselves against any wicked government that arises............. but you feel that groups should apply for permits to demonstrate.
You've NO idea where I am at on gun laws. None. Nada. Not at all.



Your kids have almost certainly not taken part in any mandatory training, testing, do not carry 3rd party liability insurance, their hiomes were not inspected and passed as reasonably secure for guns., they haven't got approved safes for guns, and more. Am I right?
Guessing in the dark. I didn't even say if I owned one. THIS thread isn't about your random 'other' politics.



Lon........ when have you ever insisted upon the automatic and free provision for subsistence, welfare, education and medicare for all American children to adulthood?
Insisted? I participated in free schools for two years. THIS isn't that thread. You are on a soapbox and trying to marginalize me on your whole political spectrum. Knock that off.

I don't know about the incident that killed that girl. I don't know exactly what happened. I don't know why she and her family were in a vehicle, or what they were doing.
Would you like to show exactly what happened?
As you can tell, I'm not against the need to reform society and hire police to 'protect and serve' rather than being trained as military agents. I'm very much for restructuring them, especially in the South. I've seen those abuses. What I'm against are 'irresponsible, complicit, and counter-violent actions. Yes people have a right to defend themselves, but they need to show restraint. If I were leading this movement, I'd get permits and make rules and do things to ensure thugs and criminals didn't march with me. Perhaps I'd raise funds to hire all black police to monitor my march. I'm VERY angry at illegal and irresponsible marches that have led to loss of precious lives and, injury and property.

If you are mad about that too, welcome aboard! If not, you are part of the problem. My anger isn't but expressed peaceably in a thread. Its a good place. No guns. No violence. Monitored by good mods. Its a good place. A responsible place. A place where I'm not complicit in other's deaths.
 

Lon

Well-known member
So I looked in to your references about the death of Secoriea Turner...... did you write her name? Or did you just want to focus upon words like 'baby'?
...And I was sickened over what I found out. Disgusted!
No wonder the area around that burger restuarant was picketed!
You neglected to tell me about how this filth got started!

Very glad. We are on the same page. Yes, Doser mentioned her name. Yes, I cried. My tears are cheap, but I've got them to shed and I've this thread.

An easy situation turned in to a killing...... so much for your cops, Lon.
They were called. Would I pull my gun? :nono: Not against a taser.



Tell me.... Lon....... if Officer Rolfe had hit a 'baby' in that innocent car, would you have ever mentioned a word about that?
Yes, as I said, restructuring, retraining. We don't need 'military' police, we need protect and serve officers, like our firefighters, who put themselves in harms way to protect and serve the community and try to protect the lives of those who threaten the lives of others. No lives were threatened in those two scenarios, thus I'd say we need to retrain. Police are trained for lethal response (color of skin isn't part of that training, just lethal force). We need to stop that thinking.


You want the whole BLM movement to falter and die imo,
I want them 1) to quit marching for criminals. There are many blacks that have been killed by police going into the wrong houses, members of their community killing each other, etc.. Next? 2) Protest, but do so legally and responsibly.

and you are using a dreadful incident caused by untrained, untested, unlicensed, uninsured idiots in your attempts to stop the World putting itself right about racist bigotry and crime.
Blacks are responsible for 60% of crimes in the U.S. Not 60% by race, 60% of all crimes. They are 13% of the population. Something is wrong. What I'm against is the irresponsible movement. It can organize and start making a real difference but at the moment, you are correct: I'm against violence to address violence. The Civil Rights Movement and Ghandi's movement were peaceful and accomplished something specifically because they were better organized and didn't fight violence with violence or kill babies.
 

7djengo7

This space intentionally left blank
Do you think that Black [sic] people are thugs because of some recent incidents?

Which (if either) question are you asking, here?
  1. "Do you think that ALL black people are thugs because of some recent incidents?"
  2. "Do you think that SOME, BUT NOT ALL black people are thugs because of some recent incidents?"
What motivated you to choose to not include any sort of quantifier with your phrase, "Black [sic] people"?
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Which (if either) question are you asking, here?
  1. "Do you think that ALL Black people are thugs because of some recent incidents?"
  2. "Do you think that SOME, BUT NOT ALL Black people are thugs because of some recent incidents?"
What motivated you to choose to not include any sort of quantifier with your phrase, "Black [sic] people"?

Agree, it was confusing and certainly not "sic" ( a problem with quote left in its original format OR the need).

I ignored it because 'my' post was clear. I can guess at the reason, but often ignore these. They are debate tactics that just don't work, unless he really, truly, didn't know which people are criminals and which aren't. People who loot, fight, harm, damage, and kill are criminals (thugs) regardless of affiliation, when done for these meaningless self-centered motivations. Can I ruin a good car with a good cause? Yes, to save a life. To show my disgust? :nono: Hence "thug" and anyone supporting one is remiss regardless of the color of either.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I think I get where they are coming from, when it comes to mistreating another because of color. When I was in Texas, blacks weren't treated great, but because of laws, they weren't mistreated. This was not true of the Mexicans working on green cards. While I was foreman, I stopped a lot of this misbehavior, but I could stop it all. When someone was hurt on the job, they went to a private physician on their own dime and the company didn't take care of them because it was not made to do so. It was wrong.

While I somewhat support BLM, I don't support their illegal actions, or those actions that have very young children dying. This movement is worthy of better heads and need legal permits as well as plans on what to do when violent looters and vandals invariably show up. In a movement about lives mattering, lives need to matter.

Lon, please also bear in mind that who you're discussing this with is an obsessive troll. He's been on my ignore list for over a year and yet he still follows me about and refers to me in posts in the same demented manner as the above. You've been here for a long time Lon so I presume you recall his deranged obsession with TH? To the point of challenging him to prove his lawyer credentials on the pain of the "loser" permanently leaving the forum? Only he was going to lose on that score as you may remember that AMR verified them and yet he still wouldn't pack it in and then the subsequent flameouts. That's not rational, intelligent behaviour but unhinged, emotive childishness and if the rules hadn't changed and TH was still posting here then he'd still be at it now. He's not right in the head.

Where it comes to BLM then I don't support any illegal or irresponsible action either as I don't with any group.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Lon, please also bear in mind that who you're discussing this with is an obsessive troll. He's been on my ignore list for over a year and yet he still follows me about and refers to me in posts in the same demented manner as the above. You've been here for a long time Lon so I presume you recall his deranged obsession with TH? To the point of challenging him to prove his lawyer credentials on the pain of the "loser" permanently leaving the forum? Only he was going to lose on that score as you may remember that AMR verified them and yet he still wouldn't pack it in and then the subsequent flameouts. That's not rational, intelligent behaviour but unhinged, emotive childishness and if the rules hadn't changed and TH was still posting here then he'd still be at it now. He's not right in the head.

Where it comes to BLM then I don't support any illegal or irresponsible action either as I don't with any group.
"couldn't" correction in my quote. Thanks on the agreement. I had a very hard time with the death of these kids. I don't remember any of this happening during the Civil Rights movement. I just wish people would have taken a few days to mourn the loss of these little ones instead of amping the protests. Somewhere we have lives that matter and that all of our lives have to matter as much to each other. -Lon
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
"couldn't" correction in my quote. Thanks on the agreement. I had a very hard time with the death of these kids. I don't remember any of this happening during the Civil Rights movement. I just wish people would have taken a few days to mourn the loss of these little ones instead of amping the protests. Somewhere we have lives that matter and that all of our lives have to matter as much to each other. -Lon

From what I've gleaned from my participation on leftist/feminist/liberal sites here on the WWW and on Facebook and Twitter, BLM protests are primarily about defeating Trump. Anything that gets in the way of that primary effort such as remembering the innocents who were killed is either ignored or viciously shouted down.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
There is a cheerleading section from all over the world for these demonstrations ...

There is a large proportion of people all over the world who hate America and who love to see America suffer. artie and eider and the new guy from Canada are part of this contingent.
 

Lon

Well-known member
There is a large proportion of people all over the world who hate America and who love to see America suffer. artie and eider and the new guy from Canada are part of this contingent.

Not sure I met the new guy from Canada yet.

From what I've gleaned from my participation on leftist/feminist/liberal sites here on the WWW and on Facebook and Twitter, BLM protests are primarily about defeating Trump. Anything that gets in the way of that primary effort such as remembering the innocents who were killed is either ignored or viciously shouted down.

That's what the reporter from Portland said as well. You'd think, with a vote just two months away.... It just doesn't make sense.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
eider called this an "emotional rant" - I'm not seeing it :idunno:

Dupe and majority by morality are two different things. If you truly believe you and the world are justified to have babies dead by impotent cowards, then I'm not part of 'that' majority, no. The majority are NOT in the streets. The majority are staying home taking care of their families and doing the right thing.


Reminded me of this:
Spoiler
 
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ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Not sure I met the new guy from Canada yet.


expos4ever - couldn't come up with his name the other day and I was multitasking

So far he seems most interested in talking about masks and has an irrational visceral hatred for another country's leader like artie, like eider
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
This all begins and ends with God. The left and their supporters - eider, artie, expos4ever, and their violent military terrorist wing Antifa, have rejected God.

And so they are rejected by God.

And the innocents on this plane often fall victim to those who are led by the opposition to God.
 

eider

Well-known member
ALL freedoms have parameters. There is no such thing as running wild naked in the streets, freedom.
Oh dear......... so you think that running 'wild' naked in the streets would be a big problem?
Where I live we don't think that that kind of action is that dreadful, actually. A group of naked girls rode their bicycles along the sea wall recently. Maybe you'd want them all locked up, or put in mental hospitals?
1) Meth in his system - not rehabilitated no matter what you say, it is a DIRECT violation of his parole.
Oh Hell, then!!! Why didn't you say before??? That's OK then...... kill him! I mean, 'who cares'? Stop the World!
On the side, exactly how much meth did 'they' discover and how does this make any difference to the feelings of the Western World over the situation?
2) Babies. Did you read the reporter in Portland? The one who said BLM is not about Black Lives? That its about cabin fever, angst, and irresponsibility?
I wonder what that reporter's agenda is? I don't believe a word that reporter says, mate. I've read about the disgusting situation that occured there and know for sure that it's about a man who did not want to DUI who parked up to snooze off the night off road....... and who died for it! I've already told you that where I live an identified person who can be located easily, whose sister lives nearby, doesn't need to be shot dead by an idiot officer who even fires into innocent vehicles full of people.
And your reporter wanted to say......what?
3) ONLY 2 years ago, Floyd was involved in a heinous crime. HOW MUCH rehabilitation can 2 years do for somebody?
Oh please! Wake up! You're in America! People get banged up for misdemeanours!
And here you are, quite incorrect on timeline, by the way, pretending that convicted criminals can walk about on parole after HEINOUS crimes! You're totally incorrect. Mr Floyd served five years in prison and was released two years ago.
Look........ this is how skewed your whole outlook is about this.
And that's two cops who kill innocent folks, and there are more..............
No, all of them. All of them without permits are illegal. We've had MANY peaceful marches, organized, responsible and LEGAL.
And there's you, insisting on the right to bear arms for protection against any bad government that might want to harm you....... pleasse do get a permit before yiu bear anything out there, Lon.......... all skewed ideas.... mixed in to a mess that the World won't listen to.
Parsing to absurdity. You are just being contentious now over NO ARGUMENT. :doh:
Read the above........... wake up!
Right, not even a moments silence for those precious babies, or a "stop, wait a minute...Did a black man just kill another black man on THE DAY we started marching for their lives to matter????!!!" Nope. They didn't and you didn't. I cried for that father and the other for the mother and cried again for cold babies in the ground.
It's just a pity you didn't cry for Mr Floyd, or Mr Brooks........ The law will cry for the killed child...... after it has delivered justice, which is what the World seeks for Mr Brooks and Mr Floyd both.
You've NO idea where I am at on gun laws. None. Nada. Not at all.
Guessing in the dark. I didn't even say if I owned one. THIS thread isn't about your random 'other' politics.
Your 'kids' have guns.... yes?
Insisted? I participated in free schools for two years. THIS isn't that thread. You are on a soapbox and trying to marginalize me on your whole political spectrum. Knock that off.
Well we hope you'll support free subsistence, medicare, schooling and welfare for all children, something that you don't seem to to want to do.
As you can tell, I'm not against the need to reform society and hire police to 'protect and serve' rather than being trained as military agents. I'm very much for restructuring them, especially in the South. I've seen those abuses. What I'm against are 'irresponsible, complicit, and counter-violent actions. Yes people have a right to defend themselves, but they need to show restraint. If I were leading this movement, I'd get permits and make rules and do things to ensure thugs and criminals didn't march with me. Perhaps I'd raise funds to hire all black police to monitor my march. I'm VERY angry at illegal and irresponsible marches that have led to loss of precious lives and, injury and property.
It's just a pity that you're not angry over what so many are demonstrating about. In our cities here crowds have been gathering and ripping down statues of figures who were involved in slavery. Mr Colson's Statue got torn down and chucked in Bristol harbour. And others. Companies and sports clubs are renaming themselves to get rid of racist and evil titles that mean something else now.
And you want the World to stop because an idiot kid with a gun did the wrong thing.
Tell me....... do you think he meant to hurt a baby in a car?
If you are mad about that too, welcome aboard! If not, you are part of the problem. My anger isn't but expressed peaceably in a thread. Its a good place. No guns. No violence. Monitored by good mods. Its a good place. A responsible place. A place where I'm not complicit in other's deaths.
If you think that that insisting upon Mr Floyd's murder (and Mr Brookes') being reasonable and want to paint me as a baddy, then I think I'll stick with my opinion about recent events.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
If you think that that insisting upon Mr Floyd's murder (and Mr Brookes') being reasonable ...

If you think that's what Lon is "insisting upon", you're even more retarded than people think you are.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Oh dear......... so you think that running 'wild' naked in the streets would be a big problem?
Where I live we don't think that that kind of action is that dreadful, actually. A group of naked girls rode their bicycles along the sea wall recently. Maybe you'd want them all locked up, or put in mental hospitals?
You are being distracted. Focus.

Oh Hell, then!!! Why didn't you say before??? That's OK then...... kill him! I mean, 'who cares'? Stop the World!
On the side, exactly how much meth did 'they' discover and how does this make any difference to the feelings of the Western World over the situation?
That wasn't the argument. The argument was that you shouldn't put a baby's life on the line for the death of a criminal. It doesn't matter what color the criminal was, it matters whether we go ahead and endanger lives, spread Covid, endanger lives, with criminals always on our shirt tails and whether we should illegally march with such hot tempers flairing, endangering lives, damaging property, lives, assaulting all police officers indiscriminately, endangering lives (and taking them) etc. etc.

I wonder what that reporter's agenda is? I don't believe a word that reporter says, mate. I've read about the disgusting situation that occured there and know for sure that it's about a man who did not want to DUI who parked up to snooze off the night off road....... and who died for it! I've already told you that where I live an identified person who can be located easily, whose sister lives nearby, doesn't need to be shot dead by an idiot officer who even fires into innocent vehicles full of people.
And your reporter wanted to say......what?
Ah, "My" reporter.... Marginalizing, Eider, and obviously so.

Oh please! Wake up! You're in America! People get banged up for misdemeanors!
And here you are, quite incorrect on timeline, by the way, pretending that convicted criminals can walk about on parole after HEINOUS crimes! You're totally incorrect. Mr Floyd served five years in prison and was released two years ago.
Look........ this is how skewed your whole outlook is about this.
And that's two cops who kill innocent folks, and there are more.......
Again, YOU focus and wake up. This is about whether purposefully endangering lives in double-digits (dead and many more harmed) over it, is the right thing to do in protest. Or even if there isn't some onus upon someone doing a crime, for their own demise, by choice of the conflict with the law. This isn't apartheid, it is someone willingly choosing crimes, and paying due consequences. Any time (unfortunately) anybody encounters a policeman, the potential for death by resistance is always part and parcel. I'm not saying its right, police need to be retrained to protect and serve and put their own lives on the line to accomplish that, but all this angry marching isn't taking responsibility for their family member's own very poor choices. THAT isn't worth a baby's life.


And there's you, insisting on the right to bear arms for protection against any bad government that might want to harm you....... pleasse do get a permit before yiu bear anything out there, Lon.......... all skewed ideas.... mixed in to a mess that the World won't listen to.
Again, focus. This is not a gun discussion.

Read the above........... wake up!
You wake up. Little kids are dead. The first life lost was a 'black' life. This baby's life was a 'black life.' If your movement ('your' propositionally for anybody doing this) kills many black lives (and it did) does your movement REALLY support black lives mattering???? :nono:

YOU wake up. And for whom? A criminal? I do want justice for the man. I DON'T want 13 mostly black lives gone for my actions!

It's just a pity you didn't cry for Mr Floyd, or Mr Brooks........ The law will cry for the killed child...... after it has delivered justice, which is what the World seeks for Mr Brooks and Mr Floyd both.
:doh: These died in breaking laws! It doesn't mean I don't care, but those BABIES did NOTHING wrong! Nothing. Your values are warped when you can't get this through your thick head!

Your 'kids' have guns.... yes?
Quit asking. This isn't a gun thread.

Well we hope you'll support free subsistence, medicare, schooling and welfare for all children, something that you don't seem to to want to do.
Right, because you've binned me with supposed conservatives. It is a liberal ploy and untrue. My church, and most churches are involved in taking care of these kids. I've personally fed many of them from the food bank. You? No $, no volunteer work, likely. Are YOU the one that doesn't care and then project that dismal self-indulgence and lazy irresponsibility on conservatives???? Are you? Try not to be one of those dupes. It is heinous for its accusation, especially when most I ever talk to really are ugly and self-indulgent about it. I've given a lot (over $30k) for children in 3rd world countries. Not enough, but I'm not ashamed of this amount and wish it were a challenge to the rest of the world (at least those on TOL) to do the same and save some of these precious lives. I know our economics aren't good, but if I can do it, with 4 kids of my own, so can just about anybody.

It's just a pity that you're not angry over what so many are demonstrating about. In our cities here crowds have been gathering and ripping down statues of figures who were involved in slavery. Mr Colson's Statue got torn down and chucked in Bristol harbour. And others. Companies and sports clubs are renaming themselves to get rid of racist and evil titles that mean something else now.
And you want the World to stop because an idiot kid with a gun did the wrong thing.
Tell me....... do you think he meant to hurt a baby in a car?
It was inevitable. Getting the permits and doing this with a level head would have saved lives. I'm not against the movement, I already said as much, I'm against hotheads being involved in it and by association, all of them doing illegal demonstrations.

If you think that that insisting upon Mr Floyd's murder (and Mr Brookes') being reasonable and want to paint me as a baddy, then I think I'll stick with my opinion about recent events.
I'm not sure changing your opinion was ever on the books. That'd be a real accomplishment that forums seldom rise to. What I rather hope is that such will affect voting, and will affect seeing another's point of view, and that it might cool off hotter heads long enough to do things the right way so other lives are not lost, when people are calmed down and will do things through legal channels.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... a man who did not want to DUI who parked up to snooze off the night off road.......


Rayshard Brooks drove drunk to Wendy's and fell asleep/passed out in the drive through lane.

All of that silly nonsense you wrote is a lie.
 
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