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  • #16
    Originally posted by chair View Post

    There are definitely economic costs to lock-down. Temporary, but real. There are death and economic costs to not locking down. It is not possible to both protect the economy and lives perfectly- choices have to be made.

    Most countries have chosen to go in the lock-down, social-distancing way. Even ones that thought differently at first, like GB, have changed their minds. Why? Because the cost in human life the other way is high, and there is a huge economic cost to "business as usual" as well. The faster and harder you lock down, the faster this will be under control, and life can go back to normal. As it is in China and Korea. Or you can just do "business as usual", like in Spain, and see how well that works for your country.
    what the heck is going on in India? Second largest country in the world and they have fewer cases than Luxembourg.

    Are they immune to this?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post
      Yeah, we don't absolutely know. But that's the point. The government's are acting on wild guesses and curtailing liberties and the ability to earn a living based upon nothing but guesswork, and ignoring the new research..
      Trump is not acting on guesswork, he is acting on the numbers of sick and dying. The information you posted does not contradict that. What it does suggest is that this pandemic may end in months rather than a year or more.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ok doser View Post

        what the heck is going on in India? Second largest country in the world and they have fewer cases than Luxembourg.

        Are they immune to this?
        What's going on is:
        1. The more developed a country is, the more international traffic they have, and the faster the virus reaches them. The less developed country will get exposed later and slower.
        2. The more undeveloped a country is, the harder time they'll have testing people, so they won't know what's going on. We in the developed world hardly know what is really happening.
        3. The poorer a country is, the harder it is to lock-down and prevent the spread of the disease. People have to work every day just to survive.

        My expectation is that places like India and most of Africa are going to get hit late- and hard. I don't even want to think about Venezuela. I hope I am wrong about this.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by chair View Post
          My expectation is that places like India and most of Africa are going to get hit late- and hard. I don't even want to think about Venezuela. I hope I am wrong about this.
          Also, India is on a police enforced lock-down, scheduled to last 3 weeks at this point.

          Mexico seems largely unfazed for the time being. No idea about Venezuela.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by User Name View Post

            Trump is not acting on guesswork, he is acting on the numbers of sick and dying. The information you posted does not contradict that. What it does suggest is that this pandemic may end in months rather than a year or more.
            Trump announced a reopening of the economy around Easter so people could get back to earning. What was the media's and Democrat's response to that? Extreme criticism. And upon what basis? A real basis such as the links to the research I posted, or manufactured hype by the media, as usual? They keep on pushing the fear button as hard and fast as they can.

            There is a lot of info out there that if a person listens/reads only the mockingbird media they will never hear or read about it. And that information tells stories that never, and I mean, never, make it into the mockingbird media other than claims that it is all lies. They have an established narrative and agenda and everything else gets suppressed so that people do not see a balanced point of view. And the politicians are making full use of that ignorance of the public to take away liberty and the right for the common man to pay his bills. I wonder how many people are going to lose their homes and transportation before this is all over, let alone be able to feed themselves.

            Here's an interesting link. Think about the implications of what you learn here. https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/its...turns-negative

            Here's more really interesting news. Ford just shut down all their production facilities, indefinitely. https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...n-indefinitely
            “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
            ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

            “One and God make a majority.”
            ― Frederick Douglass

            Comment


            • #21
              Here's another fatality this morning.

              Talk about a coincidence: just as we were discussing why April would be "apocalyptic" for the oil industry, as Saudi Arabia just unleashed an unprecedented record amount of oil to buyers in a scramble to put its high-priced competitors out of business, warning that "countless oil producers would file for bankruptcy", former shale darling Whiting Petroleum did just that, filing a pre-packaged Chapter 11 deal in the Southern District of Texas Bankruptcy Court after reaching an agreement with certain note holders to pursue a "comprehensive" and "consensual" financial restructuring.

              Whiting, which in Q4 pumped 123,000 bpd of which 80,000 bpd was nat gas, said it concluded that given a "severe downturn" in oil and gas prices resulting from the Saudi Arabia-Russia oil price war and COVID-19-related impact on demand a financial restructuring was the "best path forward." Creditors may disagree: the company's bonds due March 2021 were trading at par as recently as mid-January, even though we warned as far back as 2015 that it would be the first company to go under: truly a testament to how idiotic the junk bond market has been for the past 4 years.
              The rest of the article can be found below.

              https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/whi...les-bankruptcy
              “Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.”
              ― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

              “One and God make a majority.”
              ― Frederick Douglass

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ffreeloader View Post

                You're an idiot. The I posted links don't even go to Zerohedge. And, snopes, factcheck.org, and politifact are a bunch of scam artists who push a specific agenda.
                Florida, Finally: The state will go on lockdown, far too late
                April 2, 2020

                Much of red America is finally going on lockdown.

                After resisting the pleas of public health experts for days, the governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi — all states won by President Trump in 2016 — announced yesterday that they will be ordering their residents to stay home, effective Friday.

                The turnabout from Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, was especially stark. DeSantis had previously allowed spring break vacationers to socialize on Florida's beaches, where they likely spread the virus. Florida, of course, also has one of the nation’s largest populations of people over 65, who are especially threatened by the virus.

                The new lockdowns are welcome, because they will help slow the virus. But they’re also coming much later than they should have. A big reason that the virus has recently been spreading more rapidly in the United States than in Europe or Asia is the slow response from many American political leaders.

                https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/o...tis-trump.html
                ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ******
                The "holdout" Republican Governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi finally put their states into "lockdown" yesterday - apparently they've joined the "IDIOT CLUB" with the majority of American state governors who are taking the COVIR-109 "scare" seriously!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jgarden View Post
                  The .... Governors of ....

                  states in a country other than your own


                  meanwhile, Covid cases are spiking in Ontario and Quebec

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jgarden View Post
                    The "holdout" Republican Governors of Florida, Georgia and Mississippi finally put their states into "lockdown" yesterday - apparently they've joined the "IDIOT CLUB" of the majority of American state governors who are taking the COVIR-109 "scare" seriously!
                    How many dead will it take to convince you that this is a real problem?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by chair View Post

                      How many dead will it take to convince you that this is a real problem?
                      This was part of a sarcastic response to "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" for not buying into the far-right argument that the COVIR-19 pandemic has been overblown - once again conservatives are claiming to possess "insider" conspiracy knowledge that is not available to the rest of we mere mortals!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jgarden View Post
                        ... "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" ...
                        freeloader hurt your feelings by calling you a mean name?

                        once again conservatives are ...
                        yes, your inexplicable irrational obsessive hatred for conservatives is almost as powerful as your inexplicable irrational obsessive hatred for another nation's leader



                        when you were a child, did a conservative steal your lunch money?

                        knock you down on the playground?

                        take your best gal from you?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jgarden View Post

                          This was part of a sarcastic response to "freeloader" who referred to me as an "idiot" for not buying into the far-right argument that the COVIR-19 pandemic has been overblown - once again conservatives are claiming to possess "insider" conspiracy knowledge that is not available to the rest of we mere mortals!
                          My apologies. It's hard sometimes to follow things here.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by chair View Post

                            My apologies. It's hard sometimes to follow things here.
                            you need a scorecard

                            jgarden is a Canadian national with a severe case of Trump derangement syndrome

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              And Chair, if you're not keeping score, "ok dozer" has a severe case of "jgarden derangement syndrome".

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I'm just trying to focus on reality here.
                                The plain facts are:
                                1. This is a serious disease
                                2. It got out of hand in Wuhan because of Chinese (communist) stupidity
                                3. The Chinese got their act together and got it under control
                                4. The Western democracies were busy patting themselves on the back- "Democracies are much better and dealing with things like this because A,B,C..."
                                5. While we were patting ourselves on the back, the virus arrived- and caught everybody in the West, inexcusably, with their pants down. Western Hubris and stupidity this time.
                                6. The time for pointing fingers is way past. Time to get our act together and control this thing. There will be time enough to fix the blame election time.
                                7. The tougher we are, the faster it will get under control, and the faster business will get rolling again. Need an example? China again. (And yes, the Chinese are awful in many ways. )

                                Comment

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