Disproportionalities: Whose Fault?
- Thread starter Gary K
- Start date
I agree that he's a troll. He's just not a very good troll. He loses debates way too often to be considered very good at being a troll.
I thought I'd post a part of a speech given by Frederich Douglass titled What the Black Man Wants. I'm posting the last paragraph of his speech to the Massachusetts Anti-Slavery Society about their relationships with slaves and freedmen. This position is basically the same one taken by Booker T. Washington and by Oscar Micheaux in his book on being a settler/homesteader in the Dakotas. BTW, he was the only black homesteader in all of the Dakotas when he arrived there.
There's only one fact to lay out.....Disproportionalities, who's fault is it?
In retrospect, nobody left the Negro alone ...the abolitionists nor the the racists. Seems then up until present has been a series of unwanted opposing responses waged by both anti-negro and pro-negro white Americans, all beget from the tragedy of slavery.
So to answer your OP question: White Americans are at fault...past and present.
A stunning conclusion....right?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Were they enslaved by Americans?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
as much so as any current day negro
Do tell.
Just did what?
So you're saying Americans started slavery here. Wrong again. The English started it here. The king used to give his buddies in the extended royal family very large tracts of land in the New World, what they called North America at the time. Back in the early 1600s. And they wanted to make big money off of those gifts so they set up plantations along the southeastern coast where the weather and soil was very good for farming. And rather than hire people to work for them they imported slaves to work those plantations. And along with the importations of slaves they used the southeast coast of NA the same way they used Australia: they sent their convicts, pickpockets, black sheep of the royal family, etc.... Those who didn't want to work for a living. That's how slavery came here. And by the time of the Revolutionary War slavery had been the economy of the southern provinces for around a 150 years. It was fully embedded in the culture and the economy of the south. But it was an anathema to the descendants of the Pilgrims who gave us our political system. Not the Puritans. The Pilgrims. Two different groups with two different agendas and ways of thinking. The Pilgrims gave us Roger Williams who gave us religious liberty and deeply instilled it within us.
So you're wrong on where slavery came from. It didn't come from Americans. It came from Englishmen, the elite culture of Englishmen. Their ruling class.
Now to messing with the Blacks. It was the Democrats who started a war to keep slavery. And it's the Democrats who still keep Blacks on the plantation by undercutting their self-respect and telling them they are victims on an every day basis rather than leaving them alone to work things out on their own like Frederick Douglass said to do. It's not conservatives who say the black man can't make it on his own. It's you leftists who keep on messing with them.
All my posts on this thread have been pointing towards leaving them to work out their own issues. A friendly helping hand when needed by individuals rather than government policies and the absence of the repeated messages of victimhood will work out the problems. Why? Because the black people have what is necessary within them to work it out. I've given you example after example of blacks who despised victimhood and became successful just like any other person has been able to do in this nation. Blacks born in slavery became very successful businessmen. Douglass himself owned his own newspaper and was a political force during his lifetime. Booker T. Washington was born into slavery and because of the same attributes Walter E. Williams had and used he became a leading educator and businessman. He's still famous today. And how did he do that? Was it the government's "helping hand" that made him a success? Not at all. Government would have tied him up with regulations and made it far to expensive for him to succeed. In other words government would have stifled him. But back then government left people alone to work out their lives for themselves and that is why he succeeded.
After everything I've posted on this thread you still couldn't figure out what my solution is for the blacks. It seems you either completely ignored what I said, or you gave it no thought whatsoever to see where my words led. Or you're just so prejudiced/indoctrinated that you can't even understand what I have to say. No matter what the reason was you couldn't understand the ideas I have been putting forth they are exactly what those blacks who overcame massive odds against have said about what it takes for a black man to succeed. Even though you consider me a racist I have listened to blacks have had to say about slavery and what it takes to overcome that history and accepted their ideas because they make sense. Their ideas are nothing but common sense based on the understanding of human nature.
Your reading assignment is the following books. You'll learn something from them, if you'll read them.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=micheaux This link leads to 3 books written by Oscar Micheaux. They are very informative books but are so well written they are easy reads.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2376 Booker T. Washington's autobiography
https://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/douglass-the-life-and-times-of-frederick-douglass-from-1817-1882 This is Frederick Douglass' full autobiography If you'll notice the link it is a conservative site that allows people to download thousands of books for free ranging from the writings of the Greeks to the Romans, to authors from the middle ages to the mid 1950s. Notice that they they include Douglass as an author on what liberty really means, for understanding what liberty means, what it has cost, is the entire focus of this very informative site. They have at least a couple of hundred authors and a few thousand books. All of them provided free of charge.
I'll bet you can't find a single leftist site that publishes Douglass' writings. Funny how the people you claim are "racists" are interested in reading the the thoughts of a self-made black man and have a whole lot of respect for him.
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/douglass/ This link is a collection of Frederick Douglass' writings and speeches. I've had this site bookmarked for several years and have read all they have to offer. Douglass' writings are very good reads. And they are an education in and of themselves. He was quite a man.
LOL. Duly noted.
Within all that verbiage....did you ever find an answer to your OP (possibly rhetorical) question?
I'll be nice and just correct your obvious inability to comprehend what you read. The OP's rhetorical question was from Walter E. Williams, not from me. You know, the ideas that came from a black man.
Second, it appears that you don't even understand the reason why Walter E. Williams asked the question. He asked the rhetorical question found in the title of his article and gave the examples he did to illustrate that there is no political solution to disparities. They occur naturally. They happen because of human nature, and no matter how your side attempts to manually attach/reattach the apple to the tree it's bound to fail off again. Human beings don't have the ability to change their own natures. That's God's province, and His alone. And that is the same thing that Frederick Douglass said. He said if the apple falls let it fall. Don't try to do the impossible and try to reattach the apple to the tree. Stop interfering with the black man and allow the black man to work out his own life and stop messing with his life. He's capable of thinking for himself and acting for himself.
When you see a black man going to school leave him alone. Stop trying to tell him he can't compete and that he can't succeed by his own efforts. You know, affirmative action. Stop messing with him. Stop telling him he isn't capable of competing with the white man. Stop thinking you have to do something with the black man. You know, Frederick Douglass' request. It's what the black man needs and wants. It's what any man needs and wants. It's just plain old human nature at it's most basic level. Another word for it is respect.
I'll bet you're stunned that Trump at the level of support Trump is getting from all minorities. Do you know why he is getting that support? I do. It's because he is following the advice of Frederick Douglass. He's leaving them alone to work out their own destinies, and just supplying them with opportunities/jobs. He isn't interfering with their lives. He's not wringing his hands and thinking "what am I going to do with the black man". He's just allowing them to be what they want to be. That's just the opposite of what you leftists/marxists do. The idea behind all of the leftist policies and actions is "what are we going to do with the black man", and as Douglass said, you've already done way too much to the black man.
You posted the title.....defend it.
So, your response to American slavery/prejudice is ......nothing. Social Darwinism is your answer. Seems contentedly sitting on your hands exists quite convenient and comfortable for you....considering your size of the portion.
You agree?
I have and quite successfully too because you haven't disproved a single thing I've said. You've just ignored everything I've said. That isn't a successful attempt to defeat an actual argument. But you know that. You just don't have the facts to support your side of the argument. I do.
You seem to disregard the source of my ideas. They come from someone who knows exactly what slavery/prejudice is because he actually lived as a slave, was beaten, whipped and tortured as a slave. I'm just repeating what he said. Of course, you know that you're just attempting to be a good troll. It's too bad you're completely failing at it. You can't even come up with a good fallacy.
It's like facts just bounce off your skull because of the indoctrination you've suffered. Try to break out of the trance they put you in and think on your own like you did as a small child. Be an independent thinker, not a parrot who just repeats what someone else tells him.
......there is no political solution to disparities. They occur naturally. They happen because of human nature,
So does compassion for their situation and the sympathies to combat the evils of slavery and prejudice. You know, by way of human Freewill.
Wow. Social Darwinism. What a weak and pathetic justification for doing nothing.
LOL. You have to do better than this last post of yours. You're completely ignoring what Douglass' had to say. You agreed with him until you realized the implications of what he said. And those implications are that he was saying stop thinking about what you can do with the black man. That idea of what can we do with the black man, the one adopted by the political left, is exactly the opposite of what Douglass said the black man wants and needs. He said, stop being racist and respect us for who we are. And you refuse to do that.
So, in actuality you disagree with Douglass. You're saying an ex-slave knows nothing about slavery and what it takes to overcome those experiences in his life. Yet he proved the truth of his own words by being a success. You're saying that you know more about slavery and it's effects on a person than he does even though he actually lived it, and you've never even seen it in your lifetime. I say that is incredibly arrogant on your part.
You're, in effect, saying he's too stupid to know what he's talking about even though his life proved his point. That, quip, is racism. Pure and simple racism.
I respect Douglass' viewpoint but I believe it was idealistic i.e. pragmatically unrealistic....the abolitionist knew this.
I respect Douglass because he live by the ruling end of slavery's whip...what he stated was intelligent, bold and strong yet humbled.
You - a white American - have no right to manipulate his legacy and political position as part of a weak justification in promoting social darwinism.
You're pathetic.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
there hasn't been slavery in America for the last 157 years, in New York for the last 193 years