Your welcome. I wonder if you will help to amend the misrepresentations of BEL.
Your welcome. I wonder if you will help to amend the misrepresentations of BEL.
Apollo – You said
Appreciate your indignity re: misrepresentation of Open Theism’s views.
Well, that is not how I would summize it, because they got some of the particulars about open theism’s claims correct even though they appraise it wrongly, but more to the point, my criticism of the overwhelming falseness was largely due to the fact of miss categorizing the list of beliefs in two, not one, but two ways! First, the category does not fit well with Bob’s government views, and secondly because the list was not about government, it was about theology. I am wondering if you are the one behind this careless list because you are not very careful with the little that has been presented to you, first calling my brash exposure of rampant fraud a “clarification”, then altering the summery of my exposure in a fair but not accurate way, I grant you meant no harm, but there is a clear difference, namely, they got some of the particulars about open theism right that I did not attempt to address since that was not the focus of my response, nor the focus of the list.
I would be happy to deal with whatever “open view” “closed view” issues you may have, as that is an area that I am well familiar with. At your discretion of course, but I suggest you settle the issue that has been started first. It is a serious matter to falsify against the brethren, it is an evil that God hates, see the Proverbs passage previously sighted for proof.
Jefferson is a great guy, and I suspect hes would do well embellishing on more of Enyart’s views on government, that seems to be one of his strong suites. But I can see you missed God’s point that I trust Jefferson tried to deliver to you. Here is the passage for your reconsideration for being as you say, “convincing”.
De 22:10 "You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together. 11 "You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together. 12 "You shall make tassels on the four corners of the clothing with which you cover yourself.
(1a) 13 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 "and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, ‘I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she was not a virgin,’ 15 "then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out the evidence of the young woman’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the young woman’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 ‘Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter was not a virgin," and yet these are the evidences of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 "Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 "and they shall fine him one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 (1b) "But if the thing is true, and evidences of virginity are not found for the young woman, 21 "then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father’s house. So you shall put away the evil from among you. 22 (2) "If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. 23 (3) "If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 25 (4) "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. 27 "For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her. 28 (5) "If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
Here you have God dictating a list of commands to individuals and that are optional suggestions for right living, ,,, right? Or, could it be that God was serious and trustworthy and was actually commanding His people, the nation of Israel the way of life for national and criminal affairs. You should not remain so confused about the nature of God’s commandments.
This is part of the law that God gave to Israel and is no less binding to them than the 10 commandments or circumcision for example. I numbered the various sex outside of marriage commandments and underlined the various punishments and judgments for each separate case. This is an issue that is very akin to rape and murder both of which sins are capitol offenses, but not pure fornication, it is wrong, but it is not a capitol offense. Notice the extreme similarity between the two firebrick colored sections. Situation 1a, the woman is innocent, and no one is put to death and the man pays restitution and forfeits his rights of divorce presumably because his reputation has been trashed. But under the same situation but the woman is guilty as charged, it becomes a capitol offense, and she is put to death! The severity of differences in the altered situations between this (1a and 1b) and the 5th example should clue you in on just
how important it should be for you to have a solid understanding of God’s word PRIOR to taking a stance against one of it’s commandments.
In the case of for unmarried people fornicating, and rape and adultery was not involved, then the judgment is marriage. It was not rape because they were both consenting, and marriage is not a punishment, it is a holy institution created by God and is one of the most common analogies of our relationship with God. It was not lawful, or legal to fornicate, but the crime was nothing compared to adultery or rape or sodomy which are capitol crimes. Sometimes crimes are punished by restitution, and this is the extent that God commands for this crime, the obligatory dowry, and forfeiture of right his generally liberal rights of divorcement.
To me, God’s word is about as authoritative and convincing as you can get. However, maybe you have a more “convincing” alternative for how to handle such things as fornication and rape and adultery and false divorce claims, that we should all hear about. Please explain fully.
