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  • 1Way, the guy tapping out in this discussion is you. Until you can answer Apollo's questions this conversation's done, far as I'm concerned.




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    • You are, apparently, TOL’s sacrificial lamb in this discussion. You refuse to answer direct questions and expect me to do your homework, and your thinking, for you. I gave you a list of two dozen questions I’ve already asked and, again, you ignored them.

      Fornication and prostitution are not crimes under biblical law. There is no law, no case law, no penalty, and no anecdotal evidence of this “law” ever being applied.

      What question haven’t I answered? No doubt, you’ll ignore this question, too.

      He even changed the law over the death penalty
      .

      Where? When? In what way? (More questions you can ignore.)

      You want to know if men should be able to hold hands in public.
      Never said anything about holding hands.

      It's a crime to promote or willfully support criminal activity. If you support communism in this dispensation, your implicated in nationwide thievery and may be guilty of compromising and obstructing national defense in so doing.
      Being a Communist is not a crime. Communists have run for President. It’s certainly not a “crime” under biblical law. You know less about politics than biblical law, if that’s possible.

      If you lie in order to protect a murder in a court of law, you are guilty of a capitol offense. Guilt by direct criminal association and or willful support is an unambiguous righteous bible teaching.
      Perjury is a crime under biblical law. In our case, first you have to demonstrate that fornication and prostitution are “crimes.” You can’t, or you would have.

      Again, I don’t sufficiently understand Bob’s position nor scripture’s position in order to answer so many questions with so much certainty.
      Then, as you’ve proven, you are unqualified to debate the point.

      You have no support, even from your fellow ditto-heads. You have been hung out to dry.

      Comment


      • I have no problem dealing with questions that I can answer, and I have no problem waiting for answers and understanding for issues that I do not already have answers for.

        But I think most of the list that was just levied against me concerns issues that I already addressed by mostly be admitting that I have more questions about them than I do answers, yet Apollo wants to condemn and disregard me out of hand for not having the answers.

        And just because I asked questions of him (and you) that have not been answered, does not mean he is disqualified to discuss these issues. What does tend to make discussions really unproductive, is when you correct someone, and they will not stand corrected. What’s the point in having a discussion if someone argued something as airtight as 1+1=2, and the other person can not agree to such a fact?

        We are not here to promote our personal subjective opinions, we are here to engage in a bible discussion over matters fornication and godly law, and several variations on that theme.

        I have no problem admitting that Bob Enyart might be wrong on this exact issue. That is how little I know about

        1) His exact view
        2) What the bible teaches

        about this exact issue. I once found Bob to be in error on one of his teachings, not so much because he simply wrong and was headed in the wrong direction, but because he was right but had simply took the teaching a bit further than he should have.

        But we quickly worked it out and he graciously thanked me for helping him not go too far with that particular teaching. I found Bob to be extremely humble and willing to stand corrected once sufficient biblical grounds were made clear. It was no harder to have his appreciation for the correction than it was smiling and shaking a friend’s hand.

        Apollo was caught living a very bad example with his own family, and you said that the bible does not even condemn fornication anywhere and I showed you how you were wrong, and I’m still waiting for both of you to stand corrected.
        Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

        Comment


        • "Apollo was caught living a very bad example with his own family, and you said that the bible does not even condemn fornication anywhere and I showed you how you were wrong, and I’m still waiting for both of you to stand corrected."

          First things first: challenging Apollo's homelife degrades the discussion and is a cheap, sleazy, and cowardly tactic. Or should we start dissecting what you do under your roof? That you take your cues from a thrice-married convicted child abuser might explain things.

          1Way, it's one thing to be an overbearing stuffed shirt; another to judge a man's family life. For the sake of common courtesy, don't go there again.

          The Bible does not condemn fornication between two unmarried, grown adults. Period. You cannot and will not show that scripture condemns this activity. You have lost this point and you should concede as much. Get over yourself.




          Comment


          • Apollo – I admitted that I was mistaken about prostitution being illegal. And now I admit that I mistook your example about two men doing something intimate in public. I told you that I am homophobic and I just can’t stand the thought of two men ...

            I did not mean to misrepresent you, it was a simple oversight.

            As to communism, it is a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership. God does not authorize such tyranny from human government, and He does not allow steeling the right of private ownership. Being a communist is a crime according to God’s word. If you have no arguments against mine, then obviously your view is either insubstantial or just plane wrong. And I was not changing the subject to it being a crime in America, we were supposedly talking about what God considers is a crime or not.

            In our case about perjury, I was responding to you homo allusion bit. I’m not saying that they should be put to death, but if they are complicit with the crime, then they should be held accountable. Again, I am willing to consider the matter about fornication further, but pressing me to answer something that I do not have an answer for will do no one any good.

            You said
            (1) Then, as you’ve proven, you are unqualified to debate the point.

            (2) You have no support, even from your fellow ditto-heads. You have been hung out to dry.
            (1) Right, I’m willing to peruse learning and study on the issue.

            (2) Wrong, I am not without any support as my challenge to you has yet to be answered for example. I am no more hung out to dry than you are for not standing corrected for treating your own children as though they are not saved brethren, and for not having a response to my observation that since God changes laws especially between dispensations, He might do so again based on established biblical principles. So we are hardly out of the woods yet. Plus there is a far cry between

            not having sufficient information to make a particular argument,

            and giving in to another simply because it is in opposition to that argument.

            You might be right that Enyart is (to some extent) wrong, but you might be wrong about “how” and “why” and you might be really wrong about what you currently think is right instead. By what you have displayed so far, your biblical understanding is more condemning of you than it is affirming you. You are right in that we should not overstep scripture, funny thing is that Bob Enyart teaches the same thing too, but ended up opposing you on this issue. Because of so much ignorance about why and how Bob holds the view that fornication should be a crime and not just a sin, and more importantly, what does the bible teach on that particular issue, until the truth becomes better dealt with, I will hold out judgment on the matter. I am not willing to do as you have done and rashly judge a matter that is not sufficiently understood.
            Last edited by 1Way; May 7th, 2004, 03:59 PM.
            Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

            Comment


            • Granite – If the debate is a math problem, over say calculus or trig, but one of the debaters messes up on a fundamental law that effectively undermines practically all of mathematics, then failure to make clear notice of such a thing would be irresponsible at best.

              Don’t mistake my observation of his wrongdoing as being inappropriate or as being non-responsive. He rightly applied the example as being congruent to the discussion at hand, but he was found in direct violation with God’s word as to how he handled the situation, and he has yet to stand corrected about it. I teach and believe what the bible teaches about judging others, so don’t go there.

              So this observation about Apollo allowing his own children to commit fornication without disowning/rejecting/shunning them, does two main things. (1) Attacks his credibility as an authority for biblical correctness, and (2) Exposes a significant lack of objectivity and personal humility for standing corrected. Many people have even many problems, ok, so he messed up pretty badly with matters of great importance that relate pretty directly to the issue at had. Ok, so have a lot of people. Live and learn and move on already. Or must I become a stuffed shirt judgmental pretentious je_lly fish like you?

              I gave you a large list from the bible that of uses of the word fornication. I put forth two basic assumptions about that list. They are:
              1. Those uses of fornication involved teachings about fornication (however direct or indirect)
              2. They unilaterally condemn fornication (however direct or indirect).
              Since giving you this evidence that your claim is wrong, you have decided to repeat your claim. Oooo, my, how convincing. I await your response over my point of refutation of your claim that the bible does not condemn fornication. If you do not respond against the refutation, your claim stands refuted by the many bible examples that condemn fornication.
              Last edited by 1Way; May 7th, 2004, 04:02 PM.
              Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

              Comment


              • Moving this to Limits of the Law (General Theology).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by granite1010

                  First things first: challenging Apollo's homelife degrades the discussion and is a cheap, sleazy, and cowardly tactic. Or should we start dissecting what you do under your roof? That you take your cues from a thrice-married convicted child abuser might explain things.
                  You violate your own rule.
                  BRXI: Should Christians support the Death Penalty?

                  Comment


                  • Late night at the office

                    Hello to whoever may be snooping around in this old thread. Bob Enyart here. Hey, it's the 28th day of the month, and the last night of our February '05 telethon, and we're within 18% of our goal. So I'm staying in the office until midnight eastern time in case anyone wants to call in at 800-8Enyart. Thanks! (it's rather quiet here, sort of like the Maytag repairman syndrome.) -Bob
                    Last edited by Bob Enyart; February 28th, 2005, 07:20 PM.
                    The Bob Enyart Live talk show airs at KGOV.com weekdays at 5 pm E.T. Also, same time, same station, check out Theology Thursday (.com) and on Fridays, Real Science Radio (.com) a.k.a. rsr.org. All shows are available 24/7 and you can call us at at 1-800-8Enyart.

                    Comment


                    • He lives! Thanks for the visit, Bob!
                      Writhe in the cruel bloom

                      Comment


                      • I was looking at kgov and I saw they added something for iPod owners. Thought I'd post the info here.

                        http://www.kgov.com/feeds/podcast.html
                        Easy Steps to Setup Your KGOV Podcast

                        1. Download and install the podcast receiver software from iPodder.

                        2. Add the KGOV podcast by doing the following:
                        * Select the Subscriptions tab.
                        * Select Tools > Add a Feed... from the top menu.
                        * Enter the address http://www.kgov.com/feeds/podcast.xml into the URL textbox and click the Save button.

                        3. Select the "KGOV Radio Podcast" feed in the top window, this will download the latest episode in the bottom window.

                        4. Set it up to automatically download the new shows by doing the following:
                        * Select Tools > Scheduler... from the top menu.
                        * Click the Enable scheduler checkbox.
                        * From here you can setup automatic downloads at specific times or regular intervals.
                        iPodder is open source software.
                        grace & peace

                        Comment


                        • We did a show today titled, Denver Post hires Jason Blair, under pen name Keith W. Swain.
                          If you are inclined to, please email a suggestion to listen to this show to Gary Clark, the Denver Post managing editor at gclark@denverpost.com.

                          Thanks! -Bob
                          The Bob Enyart Live talk show airs at KGOV.com weekdays at 5 pm E.T. Also, same time, same station, check out Theology Thursday (.com) and on Fridays, Real Science Radio (.com) a.k.a. rsr.org. All shows are available 24/7 and you can call us at at 1-800-8Enyart.

                          Comment


                          • Howdy Bob!

                            Comment


                            • Moderator: Absolute Power Doesn't Absolutely Corrupt

                              Now that I'm a moderator in the BEL forum, I'm going to urge people replying to *specific program threads* and *specific BEL topical threads* to keep their comments related to those threads. Other posts may be deleted. Of course, an unrelated comment or question inside an actually germane post is fine. But posts that simply go to somebody's obsession or that introduce an irrelevant topic, might find themselves deleted. Why? I am going to try to begin a greater integration of the radio show and this forum. So we might get more people visiting here to post or read comments regarding specific topics. And the more drift wood they have to climb over, the less likely they will find what they're looking for at that moment, and the more likely they'll just move on.
                              The Bob Enyart Live talk show airs at KGOV.com weekdays at 5 pm E.T. Also, same time, same station, check out Theology Thursday (.com) and on Fridays, Real Science Radio (.com) a.k.a. rsr.org. All shows are available 24/7 and you can call us at at 1-800-8Enyart.

                              Comment


                              • Query for Bob

                                Dear Bob,

                                Since I have began listening your archived KGOV shows, I have enjoyed listening and learning from you. Just today, I was surprised by a certain position that you took and was wondering if I could ask you about it in more detail. Ought I start a new thread or may I ask it here in this one?

                                the Sentient Synthesizer

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