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  • Originally posted by Turbo

    Which isn't much, is it?
    May not be much in your estimation, but what I do know is more than enough to be a judge of his character.
    The engine of history runs on the combustion of ideas.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cur_deus_homo

      May not be much in your estimation, but what I do know is more than enough to be a judge of his character.
      Well hey... at least your not one of those nonjudgmental Christians.
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      • Originally posted by Lucky

        Shame on Bob for not being in first place!
        Wow, ! Where/how did you find this website? I wonder which TOLer started this website?

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            • Originally posted by Knight

              Well hey... at least your not one of those nonjudgmental Christians.
              I do not pussyfoot around when I see someone espousing hate and condemning people to hell for totally inocuous reasons like being a member of the "wrong" church.

              We are called to judge rightly, and that is very difficult to do because we are all sinners. Thus we should be very measured and not overblown in our judgments of others. Most of the time people end up judging themselves by their actions and therefore there is little need to judge them harshly.
              The engine of history runs on the combustion of ideas.

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              • Anybody want to tackle what Apollo did to the mis-application of the virgin property laws, or does this one go down the memory hole?




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                • Rest easy, no hurry here.

                  Granite, how about you? If it was your virgin daughter that got boinked by a wandering seducer, other than "vigilante" justice, should there be a law making the seducer responsible for his actions? Has not the virgin daugher been defrauded of her dowry? How is the father's name and fortune to be restored? If not by enforcing virgin bride price laws, what then?

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                  • When Christians start name-calling, it's like they're arguing with themselves in a mirror.

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                    • Originally posted by Sibbie

                      Wow, ! Where/how did you find this website?
                      I did a Google search on Bob Enyart. It was on second page of results.
                      grace & peace

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Apollo

                        Rest easy, no hurry here.

                        Granite, how about you? If it was your virgin daughter that got boinked by a wandering seducer, other than "vigilante" justice, should there be a law making the seducer responsible for his actions? Has not the virgin daugher been defrauded of her dowry? How is the father's name and fortune to be restored? If not by enforcing virgin bride price laws, what then?
                        Hmm. Interesting. I see you've moved away from the Two Emancipated and Independent Adults scenario, but I think you've pretty much won that particular argument.

                        There should be some kind of restitution paid, if said unmarried daughter living under my roof is defiled in this fashion. I don't know about the rest of you, but accepting some kind of payment--a Virgin Tax, if you will--from some schmuck seducer would make me feel pretty cheap. And I don't want to imagine how my wife or daughter would feel about me, either, if daddy can be bought off that easily. "Don't worry, sweetheart; your virginity was worth a grand. That'll go into you Janus fund."

                        I'm not sure what the appropriate action or response would be. There is definitely an element of fraud here--a defrauded virgin, a defrauded family.




                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by granite1010
                          I don't know about the rest of you, but accepting some kind of payment--a Virgin Tax, if you will--from some schmuck seducer would make me feel pretty cheap. And I don't want to imagine how my wife or daughter would feel about me, either, if daddy can be bought off that easily. "Don't worry, sweetheart; your virginity was worth a grand. That'll go into you Janus fund."
                          A grand? What verse did you get that from?

                          Deuteronomy 22:28,29 says, "If a man finds a girl, a virgin not engaged, and lays hold on her, and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife. Because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

                          50 shekels of silver was far higher than the common dowry in Israel. It was a lot of money back then. A shekel was an ounce of silver. Because of the vast increase in mining, the price of silver today is only about $4.50 an ounce. So 50 shekels of silver would only come to about $225.

                          Therefore, this is a classic example of how the principle of Biblical Law can be applied in 2004. 50 shekels of silver 4,000 years ago was the equivalent to what a modern dowry would be today, probably a payment equivalent to a college education plus the cost of a wedding. A seducer would be looking at a payment of many years of net income with only minimal support for himself.
                          No brand new sports cars and living the party lifestyle for Joe Playboy for several years.
                          Last edited by Jefferson; April 28, 2004, 12:24 AM.
                          WARNING: Graphic video here.

                          Comment


                          • I was using the amount as an example and should have clarified that. Either way, my point remains: it strikes me as dirty and cheap to have someone pay their way out of seduction. I suppose, though, to some justice might equal dollars...




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                            • All – God plainly commanded restitution and marriage and forfeiture of standard divorce rights. And this command was given right alongside even capitol offense crimes, and the near famous, you shall not wear clothing with mixed fabrics like wool and linen. These commandments were for national governmental affairs and you would expect the government in Israel to carry out these directives from God.

                              BUT

                              We have Apollo here effectively stating that he knows better than God and primarily argues from the negative that there are no laws/commandments against fornication per say. I just knew if I founded by position on God’s word it would fly like a lead balloon. But what do you expect when the protagonist is pro-fornication as being legal and his sidekick is pro homo.

                              Apollo – God’s word on this issue via His commandments to the nation of Israel affords you none of the loopholes you tried to register. God gave clear and sufficient instructions for how to deal with such a situation as fornication. His dictate was national government and showed not leeway for loopholes unlike the first example where the exception to the rule was plainly given.

                              So if you have nothing better than to ignore what God said and to present logically negative arguments which amount to nothing because of the positive commandment of God about fornication, then you owe it to yourself to gain a better understanding of what God said on this issue instead of contradicting God.

                              I believe that the following is one particular part that Bob Enyart would say was especially relevant to why he promotes godliness and morality instead of ungodliness and sexual immorality which leads to death and destruction.

                              Queen lyrics to Bohemian Rhapsody as reported by http://www.queenwords.com/lyrics/songs/sng11_01.shtml

                              So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye
                              So you think you can love me and leave me to die
                              Oh baby - can't do this to me baby

                              Just gotta get out - just gotta get right outta herea


                              Thank goodness for those like Bob Enyart who do their best to help save and warn those who are headed towards “death and destruction”. You can not love someone and leave them alone as they head toward death and destruction. Freddy got that much right, love would stand in the way and resist a persons destruction.

                              Let’s see, we went from Bob teaches “moral government”, to he’s an ill willed hate promoter, to open theism, to fornication should be legal, to Queen singing that you can not love someone and just leave them to die. Sounds pretty much full circle to me.
                              Last edited by 1Way; April 28, 2004, 09:04 PM.
                              Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

                              Comment


                              • Jefferson – You make a good point. And I just thought of something beyond that too. Think of the wisdom of the whole issue in terms of personal relationship. Presumably they get married and the parents of the woman care about their daughter and thus her marriage.

                                This longstanding payment of debt to the inlaws creates a natural state of interpersonal humility and accountability for the wrong that has been done. And of course its good to take care of the parents. He could not hardly continue to perpetrate the same kind of offense and think that he could get away with it. Everyone would know what happened and with every payment made, the reality of the guilt would only grow.

                                The purse string weighs heavily and through righteous humility, all should be the better for it. God is very wise! The offender did not get off by paying a nominal fee, he was to pay dearly for the crime.
                                Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

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