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  • Real Science Friday on Mt. St Helens

    Real Science Friday on Mt. St Helens

    This is the show from Friday May 14th, 2010.

    BEST QUOTES OF THE SHOW:
    Mt. Saint Helens is a wake-up call telling us the slow and gradual thinking pattern in geology is junk food for the brain. We don't need to think that way. We should think about catastrophic process. That's what Mt. Saint Helens does.
    On the 5th anniversary of the eruption of Mt. St. Helens I was invited to speak to 1000 geologists in Calgary about the volcano. And at the end of my talk I sat down and the convener said, "We need to introduce catastrophe theory back into geology." You could hear a pin drop. People know we need to think this way. It's just reluctance.
    SUMMARY:

    * ICR's Dr. Steven Austin on BEL: Bob Enyart interviews the senior research scientist from the Institute for Creation Research, Dr. Steven Austin, about his groundbreaking research at Mt. St. Helens, research which forced the hand of the National Park Service to remove their infamous sign about the petrified trees at Yellowstone, and which formed an important part of the pressure forcing geologists to incorporate catastrophism back into their understanding of Earth's past. Get Dr. Austin's extraordinary DVD, Mt. St. Helens from Bob Enyart Live, and not only will you love this fabulous science video, but you'll be helping to support BEL! Tonight, Dr. Austin is speaking in person at the Rocky Mountain Creation Fellowship!

    * Today's Resource: Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out especially Walt Brown'
    In the Beginning and Bob's interviews with this great scientist in Walt Brown Week! You'll also love Dr. Guillermo Gonzalez' Privileged Planet (clip), and Illustra Media's Unlocking the Mystery of Life You can consider our BEL Science Pack; Bob Enyart's Age of the Earth Debate; Bob's debate about Junk DNA with famous evolutionist Dr. Eugenie Scott; And the superb kids' radio programming, Jonathan Park: The Adventure Begins! And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI's tremendous Creation magazine!
    WARNING: Graphic video here.

  • #2
    Canyons formed quickly by a little lake are little. How are big canyons formed...?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why would there be meanders in the grand canyon if it was caused by the catastrophic failure of some inland sea flood artifact?

      Meanders are a low energy feature.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Flipper View Post
        Why would there be meanders in the grand canyon if it was caused by the catastrophic failure of some inland sea flood artifact?

        Meanders are a low energy feature.
        The great thing about high energy events is that when they have finished their initial burst they turn into smaller versions of themselves. The force involved dissipates over time until what was once a cataclysm settles down into a bit of a trickle.
        Where is the evidence for a global flood?
        E≈mc2
        "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

        "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
        -Bob B.

        Comment


        • #5
          Where are the low energy morphologies you refer to?
          Where is the evidence for a global flood?
          E≈mc2
          "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

          "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
          -Bob B.

          Comment


          • #6
            Mmmm, and the examination of massive meteor and asteroid strikes on this planet is an example of scientists being reluctant to contemplate catastrophes throughout history?

            Riiiight...




            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Granite View Post
              Mmmm, and the examination of massive meteor and asteroid strikes on this planet is an example of scientists being reluctant to contemplate catastrophes throughout history?

              Riiiight...
              :squint:

              You think a meteor caused Mt. St. Helens to erupt?
              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
              E≈mc2
              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
              -Bob B.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stripe View Post
                Where are the low energy morphologies you refer to?
                Try zooming in on that map, then start looking down the course of the canyon. You can see current meanders and the shapes of older ones.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is there any way to tell the difference between two cars that crashed at 2 kph and two cars that crashed at 100 kph?
                  (Question asked in metric as a courtousy to teh forigners)
                  Everyman is a voice in the dark.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    On the 5th anniversary of the eruption of Mt. St. Helens I was invited to speak to 1000 geologists in Calgary about the volcano. And at the end of my talk I sat down and the convener said, "We need to introduce catastrophe theory back into geology." You could hear a pin drop. People know we need to think this way. It's just reluctance.
                    This is like saying that crash investigators need to stop assuming that cars are parked all the time.
                    Everyman is a voice in the dark.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fool View Post
                      This is like saying that crash investigators need to stop assuming that cars are parked all the time.
                      No, it's like saying crash investigators need to stop assuming all car crashes happen at 2 kph.
                      WARNING: Graphic video here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jefferson View Post
                        No, it's like saying crash investigators need to stop assuming all car crashes happen at 2 kph.
                        If only we had proof of earthquakes and sunamis and volcanos to show them, perhaps then they would listen.
                        Everyman is a voice in the dark.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fool View Post
                          This is like saying that crash investigators need to stop assuming that cars are parked all the time.
                          Do you guys really, honestly think that geologists and other scientists aren't aware of or aren't interested in evidence for local and global catastrophes in the earth's history?

                          Here's the wiki entry that gives you the background of and evidence for a large local flood caused by the collapse of a land bridge between the Black Sea and the Atlantic. You know, exactly the sort of thing being alluded to in this Mount St Helens/Grand Canyon thing.

                          The difference is, there is reasonable geological evidence to support the argument that the Black Sea and Atlantic became joined in an event that could have been quite dramatic. There is no similar evidence to support such an event in the Grand Canyon.

                          On the contrary, the Grand Canyon is a serious problem for creationists, what with all those land animal tracks and wind-blown trace features occurring midway up the "flood" deposits. Pretty weird global flood, that.

                          And do you seriously believe that the many researchers studying the five major extinction events this earth has seen across the eras are somehow not interested in catastrophes?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Flipper View Post
                            Try zooming in on that map, then start looking down the course of the canyon. You can see current meanders and the shapes of older ones.
                            Try dropping "lat link" markers.

                            You mean at 36.3945, -111.8731?
                            Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                            E≈mc2
                            "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                            "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                            -Bob B.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Flipper View Post
                              Do you guys really, honestly think that geologists and other scientists aren't aware of or aren't interested in evidence for local and global catastrophes in the earth's history?
                              You seem to be picking a rather benign angle here. If you want to agree with us couldn't you just do so and move on?

                              Got any more specific locations on that map for us to look at?
                              Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                              E≈mc2
                              "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                              "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                              -Bob B.

                              Comment

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