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ARCHIVE: Christians only PLEASE - abortion

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  • ARCHIVE: Christians only PLEASE - abortion

    I was a murderer. Does that sound harsh?? It is. I had murdered two of my children through abortion. I say was because I know that God has put away my sin. The woman who did those acts died on February 9, 1997. Why do I even bring this up?? I don’t struggle with forgiveness issues. I know I am forgiven. I do not struggle with condemnation issues, for I know there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. So again, why do I even bring this up??

    Well despite my rest in Christ, the knowledge and the memory of what I did still comes to mind periodically and grieves me to the core. I think that is good. But here is what has been brining it to mind lately. Anyone who has dialoged with me on theological issues knows that I highly value consistency. But on this issue, I think we Christians can be some of the most inconsistent and hypocritical people around, myself a foremost offender. Let me give you the example that I wanted to bring up…. I am often asked if I have any children, to which I respond that I don’t. In my Christian worldview is that really true?? It is not. I am not a woman with no children, I am a woman with two deceased children who I do firmly believe are waiting for me with Christ. When I say that I have no children, it is as if these two never existed. They have no gravestone or memory. They have no names. And when I deny them, I kill them all over again in a sense.

    And to be brutally honest, before I was a Christian I did not care in the slightest. I never gave them a second thought. I used to be a zealous abortion mill defender. In fact, this was my trademark schtick…. I had this large sign that said, “FANATIC” with an arrow putting down under it, and I would stand behind a pro-life protester and hold it over their head. I remember them telling the women that they would regret and be sorry over what they were doing. Maybe some would be, but I wasn’t. I find these methods which appeal to the selfishness of the woman very ineffective and somewhat dishonest. Who cares if they feel bad or not. That is not the issue.

    This is not said to condemn nor am I looking for a fight. I am just trying to be honest and spill my guts a bit. Thank you for listening.

  • #2
    I'll listen any time you need to talk. God Bless & Prayers...


    • #3
      Wow, Dee Dee. I'm here if you need to talk, aswell.

      You'll be in my prayers.


      • #4
        By coming in here and sharing your heart the way you did you are keeping the memory of your children alive. You come in here with like minded people who know that you truly did have 2 babies and they are very real. I commend you to know end in taking responsibilty for this. You have my utmost respect. So few people can be humbled in this way. This shows you to be a wise and Godly woman.

        You shouldn't feel guilty though when you tell people that you have no children. The Lord knows you know this. If you feel as though you have to explain your circumstance everytime somebody asks you may only cause you pain which in turn could end up making you less effective right now as a Godly woman. When God forgave you it was over. There was never any partial requirement on your part that you had to continually make this known as I'm sure you probably already know. But I'm sure there will be and probably already have been times that you could use this as a testimony. And I'm sure you will be wise to discern when those times arise.

        Your courage to say what you did on the board has lifted me even as I type this and I'm sure many others will feel the same.
        A perfect example of fighting the good fight. You may come up bruised and hurting because of your pain which I can't imagine but you NEVER lose.
        Last edited by Poly; November 9th, 2002, 11:46 AM.
        "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan

        Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom

        Upgrade your TOL membership.


        • #5
          Hey Dee Dee,

          I have to echo what's already been said and say thanks for sharing your heart. I don't think we do this enough as Christians; sharing what's on our hearts. So many times, we just think that we can solve these things on our own. But we don't have to go through this stuff Christ, we are family. I also have to say that I it takes some serious guts for you to pour out your heart like that. I don't usually debate all that much, but I commend you for standing up for your beliefs in pretty much every post that you make here on TOL. You are truly a mighty woman of God.

          We all have things in our past that we're not proud of. Sometimes the smallest things or coincidences can bring those memories back to our mind. For me, my struggle back in the day was pornography, which often led to lust. I have never physically done anything with anyone, but I've committed adultery enough times in my heart, that it pains me to even think about it. I was baptised when I was in high school. I knew what I believed, but I wasn't living my relationship with Christ. Back in 1996, God spoke to me...and that's when I believe that my side of my relationship with Christ really started.

          And I could deny that I looked at that junk, fell into that sin, etc., but I just can't do that. I look back on it and realize how God delievered me from that sin. Through forgiveness, love, power, and righteousness.

          God's love is so overwhelming. Everytime that I think about just how much He loves us, that He would send His only son for us, just to save us......THAT'S real love. Those are the times when I cry. I can't help it--when I come to a realization of God's love, it breaks my heart every time. No matter what it is that I'm going through, whether it be trials or tribulations, etc., His love is always bigger than that.

          I believe that those 2 babies of yours are up in Heaven. I lost my mom this past February, and I heard someone once say that those things that we do here on earth are just training for what God has planned for us to do once we get Home. Being a musician, and having that talent that God granted to me, I look forward to praising Him in Heaven. My mom had a gift with children, and taught in one form or another for over 30 years. We could be at the grocery store, and kids who didn't even know my mom would smile at her, start talking to her, or in some cases just looked up, and reached up their hands as to say "pick me up", like they knew that she was someone who cared about kids. I remember once how we were talking about that...about what we were going to do in Heaven. And I told her that I thought about those babies that have been aborted (and living in Wichita, KS, one of the places where the most abortions take place, I can't help but think about it at times). I thought, "Someone has to care for them if they're aborted and go to Heaven". And I mentioned to her that maybe God was training her to do that. My mom may be playing with your 2 kids right now...only God knows.

          If you need prayer or whatever, don't hesitate to share it.
          "Real love lasts forever."

          "...when I look at a sunset or I look at the night sky or I look at the ocean--there's something inside of me that rings true when I see that beauty. It speaks of eternity and the humanity that I have yet to experience. That's where we're meant to live." -Jon Foreman of Switchfoot in the Mar/Apr. issue of 7ball


          • #6
            Oh, Dee Dee! I'm sorry you've had to deal with that. I know that your two babies are in the arms of Jesus right now. Thank you for sharing a deeply personal part of yourself with us.
            They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. -- Isaiah 40:31

            Vegetarian - Indian word for lousy hunter



            • #7
              Thank you so much my friends for listening. I am so grateful for the fellowship that I have found here.


              • #8
                Re: Christians only PLEASE - abortion

                Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren
                I find these methods which appeal to the selfishness of the woman very ineffective and somewhat dishonest. Who cares if they feel bad or not. That is not the issue.
                Good point. What do you think is an effective and honest method?
                WARNING: Graphic video here.


                • #9
                  Dee Dee,
                  My dear sister in Christ, I know you've forgiven yourself over these issues and I know they still come up sometimes. I may not fully understand your hurt but I can keep you in prayer and I will. I know how difficult it is to share your heart with names on a screen but as GuardianDude said in his post, we truly are a family in Christ, and when you suffer, we suffer. May God help you to think of your babies in heaven doing the work that is necessary there and may that thought bring you comfort now and in the future.

                  Love ya Sis,
                  Ro:3:24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


                  • #10
                    I will not pretend to feel the pain you’re going through
                    I know I cannot comprehend the hurt you’ve known
                    And I used to think it mattered if I understood
                    But now I just don’t know

                    Well, I’ll admit sometimes I still wish I knew what to say
                    And I keep looking for a way to fix it all
                    But we know we’re at the mercy of God’s higher ways
                    And our ways are so small

                    But I will carry you to Jesus
                    He is everything you need
                    I will carry you to Jesus on my knees

                    It’s such a privilege for me to give this gift to you
                    All I’d ever hope you’d give me in return
                    Is to know that you’ll be there to do the same for me
                    When the tables turn

                    And if you need to cry go on and I, I will cry along with you, yeah
                    I’ve given you what I have but still I know the best thing I can do
                    Is just pray for you

                    I’ll carry you
                    I’ll take you to Jesus on my knees



                    • #11
                      Dear Jefferson:

                      To answer your question, that would be to focus on the personhood and humanity of the baby. That is the more honest approach, and in the long run the more effective because sheerly selfish and emotional appeals can also be overcome by greater selfish and emotional appeals. Speaking for myself only at that point in time, an appeal to my own selfishness that I would not have wanted to do that becuase I would feel bad was trumped by the even greater selfish need to be rid of this inconvenience and got on with my life. However..... I was not a murderer at heart... if someone had really convinced and impressed upon me the personhood and humanity of the baby, things may have turned out differently. Knowing myself, if I had to have seen a fetal monitor or ultrasound showing the heartbeat of the baby, I think that would have made a tremendous impact on me. I know from speaking with Crisis Pregnancy workers that they have said on the more effective tools they have had is the use of ultrasounds, but unfortunately there are very expensive machines. On a less high tech scale, they have found that sending the undecided mother home with baby items such as clothing and booties makes her think about the fact that what is inside her is not a blob or a clump of meaningless tissue. It is a little person with little feet and little hands who's very life is in her hands.


                      • #12
                        You go, Dee Dee. Thank you for having the courage to share with us. You too, GuardianDude - it's good to talk about what God has done for us. Christ rocks the house!

                        I don't think you're being hypocritical in telling people you have no children, because if they'd been born and lived some number of years and then died, you would probably give people the same answer for the same reason. It's not something you're required to disclose in casual conversation.

                        I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea for anti-abortionists to talk about the bad aftereffects of abortion (emotional and physical) because it's a way of countering the assumption that having an abortion isn't a big deal and enables women to go on with their lives. Different arguments will get through to different people. I agree, though, that probably the most effective thing to do is to focus on the personhood of the baby. I recently looked up some info on medical sites on thedevelopment of the unborn, and it's amazing how quickly the brain, etc. is formed. Did you know a 4-month-old fetus can suck its thumb?


                        • #13
                          Dee Dee-

                          You said: I am not a woman with no children, I am a woman with two deceased children who I do firmly believe are waiting for me with Christ.

                          You are correct. You do have two children whom are with the Lord Jesus. Those beautiful babies love you, Dee Dee. For they are present in perfect love. They know of nothing else.

                          You continue: They have no gravestone or memory. They have no names.

                          Dee Dee, ever thought of naming your beautiful children? Or holding a funeral on their behalf for some closure?

                          Over the years my wife and I have ministered to ladies who have killed their children through abortion and other ways. The ladies we have ministered to have found some powerful inner healing through the naming of their children, having a burial site and even holding a holy funeral in remembrance of those who died.

                          The Fathers of those babies need healing also. Let us not forget.


                          • #14
                            "Behold children are a gift of the Lord; The fruit of the womb is a reward." "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believe in Him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life."
                            I rejoice, as the angels did, that you repented over your sin. It is so sad to know that we, in our ignorance refused gifts and blessings from the Lord. I rejoice even more, that you did not reject the gift of His Son. You have judged yourself rightly and sought the only remedy for our sins: MERCY. May God bless you, and may you judge others as you have judged yourself.
                            " For I delight in Mercy.."


                            • #15
                              Thank you for sharing, Dee Dee. I know you specified "Christians only"... but I wanted to tell you that I still feel for you.

                              I'm glad you've been able to reconcile your past with your religious convictions, and I hope you find the closure you're after.

                              Good luck...

                              ... firechyld
                              What Would Cthulhu Do?

                              He who knows one religion knows none. - Max Muller

                              That's the kind of liberal thinking that leads to being eaten! - Principal Snyder, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

                              Abortions for some, miniature American flags for the rest! - Kang as Bob Dole, The Simpsons