ECT WOOD, HAY, AND JERRY

intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
From open theism to MADism to the thought that God is saving those who've never heard the gospel..
Jerry, you're a great guy but you're on track to being a pauper during the thousand years kingdom coming round the corner.

Your soteriology is spot on.

Your Israelology is way off because you have no recognition of the doctrine of the Remnant of Israel. The blessings of the olive tree which "is" Israel's not "was" Israel's is a prime example of your weakness in this.

The nation of Israel has to become the focal point of we believers because Yeshua will not return until the nation of Israel asks Him to return.

Evidently you bought the manuscript on the 8 mysteries of the NT by Fruchtenbaum, it would only be because of your lack of a complete biblical Israelology that you would stick to your gentile Christian commentators who also lacked a complete biblical Israelology.

You asked which commentary I used for my verse by verse commentary I'm working on.
I'm using the one that sticks to the strict literal hermeneutic, Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum's.

If I ever hear a sermon "dare to be a Daniel " or a two month tirade on evolution/in the book of Genesis I'm gonna throw in the towels!

I just think you need to reevaluate your position on Hebrew Christianity that is based on teachers like Robertson, Ironside, Pink etc etc.
As well meaning, as virtuous as those men are and I admire them greatly, from our vantage point you and I are as if we are at the top of a mountain looking down on them. We have the means of examining scriptures from our pocket computers.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
Your Israelology is way off because you have no recognition of the doctrine of the Remnant of Israel. The blessings of the olive tree which "is" Israel's not "was" Israel's is a prime example of your weakness in this.
Click to expand...

How could the blessing of the Olive Tree belong to the nation of Israel since that nation had been temporarily cast aside when Paul wrote his epistles?:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death? (Ro.11:15).​

If you are learning these things from your old friend Arnold then he is even more confused than I imagined.
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
How could the blessing of the Olive Tree belong to the nation of Israel since that nation had been temporarily cast aside when Paul wrote his epistles?:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death? (Ro.11:15).​

If you are learning these things from your old friend Arnold then he is even more confused than I imagined.
Click to expand...

Hence the observation that you've missed the doctrine of the Remnant of Israel of whom your Paul is a member my son.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
It's obvious that you are not reading with close enough attention! "Is" not "was"!!


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
There are 2 Israels. Faithful believing Israel aka the Remnant and unbelieving Israel the whole.

In the Tribulation, the 144 thousand Jewish evangelists (I know you know they're Jews, I give you that much) are part of the Remnant. The reason you goofs think that God has to bring Moses back as one of the 2 Witnesses in the trib is yet another example of your missing ..link


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
There are Gentiles getting saved as Gentiles in the body of Messiah because the middle wall of partition (the law) that kept them from entering into a salvation relationship with God as Gentiles, has now been demolished.

Gentiles could not be in a right relationship with Jehovah BC unless they approached Him through the Temple system and proselytizing in some degree into Judaism.

Now, Gentiles become spiritual Gentiles, Jews become spiritual Jews by believing the Messiah. Those Jews within the body of Messiah are the Remnant of Israel, they are the Israel of God, quit mocking them. You're cursing yourselves .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
It's obvious that you are not reading with close enough attention! "Is" not "was"!!
Click to expand...

I am paying attention. You said that the blessing of the Olive tree "is" Israel's. And then you say that that "Israel" is the "faithful believing Israel aka the Remnant."

If they are the faithful believing Israelites then how is it possible that they can be "broken off" from the Olive tree (Ro.11:20)?
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
I am paying attention. You said that the blessing of the Olive tree "is" Israel's. And then you say that that "Israel" is the "faithful believing Israel aka the Remnant."

If they are the faithful believing Israelites then how is it possible that they can be "broken off" from the Olive tree (Ro.11:20)?
Click to expand...

Correction:

1. The Olive Tree is the Place of Spiritual Blessings.

2. The Olive Tree is Israel's.

3. The nation of Israel consists of -
the nation of Israel that is not true Israel because they don't believe in Messiah
and the prophets (this is the current nation in the land)

and

the true Israel-which is the Israel that has accepted the Messiah (like Paul, like Fruchtenbaum, like Edershiem).


4. It was not the true Israel (the Remnant) that was cut off

because

they are partaking of their Olive Tree with the Gentile members of the church.

5. It was Israel as an unbelieving nation of the first century that was cut off from the Olive Tree

and

the Jewish state of Israel today is cut off from their Olive Tree. However, because of the Abrahamic Covenant those who curse that Jewish state will be cursed (see Syria).





Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
the true Israel-which is the Israel that has accepted the Messiah (like Paul, like Fruchtenbaum, like Edershiem).
Click to expand...

If there is a true Israel today then those who make up that Israel are a special people unto the LORD, above all the people on the face of the earth (Deut.7:6). That is what distinguished the Jews from the rest of mankind and that is what made them a special nation separate from the other nations.

But at the present time there are no special people to the LORD except those in the Body of Christ and there the Jews and the Greeks are all on the same level (Gal.3:28).
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
If there is a true Israel today then those who make up that Israel are a special people unto the LORD, above all the people on the face of the earth (Deut.7:6). That is what distinguished the Jews from the rest of mankind and that is what made them a special nation separate from the other nations.

But at the present time there are no special people to the LORD except those in the Body of Christ and there the Jews and the Greeks are all on the same level (Gal.3:28).
Click to expand...

“And as many as shall walk by this rule,
BELIEVERS


peace be upon them,
GEEKS

and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”
JEWS

??Galatians? ?6:16? ?ASV??
http://bible.com/12/gal.6.16.asv


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
intojoy said:
From open theism to MADism to the thought that God is saving those who've never heard the gospel..
Jerry, you're a great guy but you're on track to being a pauper during the thousand years kingdom coming round the corner.

Your soteriology is spot on.

Your Israelology is way off because you have no recognition of the doctrine of the Remnant of Israel. The blessings of the olive tree which "is" Israel's not "was" Israel's is a prime example of your weakness in this.

The nation of Israel has to become the focal point of we believers because Yeshua will not return until the nation of Israel asks Him to return.

Evidently you bought the manuscript on the 8 mysteries of the NT by Fruchtenbaum, it would only be because of your lack of a complete biblical Israelology that you would stick to your gentile Christian commentators who also lacked a complete biblical Israelology.

You asked which commentary I used for my verse by verse commentary I'm working on.
I'm using the one that sticks to the strict literal hermeneutic, Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum's.

If I ever hear a sermon "dare to be a Daniel " or a two month tirade on evolution/in the book of Genesis I'm gonna throw in the towels!

I just think you need to reevaluate your position on Hebrew Christianity that is based on teachers like Robertson, Ironside, Pink etc etc.
As well meaning, as virtuous as those men are and I admire them greatly, from our vantage point you and I are as if we are at the top of a mountain looking down on them. We have the means of examining scriptures from our pocket computers.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Click to expand...





There is nothing about Israel doing that in the NT. The end of the world is dependent entirely on God's grace, 2 Peter 3 for both of these points.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
??Galatians? ?6:16? ?ASV??
Click to expand...

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God" (Gal.6:15-16).​

Here Paul is using the words "the Israel of God" in a figurative sense. He is speaking about two different groups, both belonging to the Body of Christ. The Gentile believers and the Jewish believers.

If we are going to take what Paul said here literally then we must believe that the Jewish believers were a group separate from the Gentiles members of the Body. But since they aren't we can understand that Paul was using the phrase the "Israel of God" to refer to the Jewish believers and not in the sense they they the only ones who belonged to the nation of israel.

intojoy said:
The Olive Tree is Israel's....The nation of Israel consists of -
the nation of Israel that is not true Israel because they don't believe in Messiah...and the true Israel-which is the Israel that has accepted the Messiah (like Paul, like Fruchtenbaum, like Edershiem).
Click to expand...

At the present time and starting in the first century the nation of Israel has been temporally set aside:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?" (Ro.11:15).​

Paul does not say that just some of them have been cast aside but the nation as a whole. And that is what Paul meant here:

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:32).​

Of course the LORD did not conclude every "individual" out of Israel in unbelief but instead the nation as a whole.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top