You would be wrong. As always
Plug the ears; cover the eyes...it was all a dream. If only you'd follow the lead of that last monkey.
Woman Wins Appeal to Wear Colander on Head in DMV Photo as Part of ‘Religion’ to ....
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
Plug the ears; cover the eyes...it was all a dream. If only you'd follow the lead of that last monkey.
Jose Fly
New member
I think parodies like the FSM definitely have an impact on potential future converts to Christianity. Never underestimate the power of public mockery (see my signature line). And given the rapid decline of Christianity in the US lately, I'd say it's working! :up:
Jose Fly
New member
Again, you miss the point. Those monuments aren't to mock, but instead are to expose the hypocrisy and legal double-standards of allowing only Christian-themed monuments.
That's why they keep winning in court.
I agree its working, but not for the reasons you think - its only because most being brought up today are whiny little kindergartners who never grew up that are afraid to have an opinion that differs from the other lemmings because they are afraid of being "mocked".
Of course you don't..it's called a cognitive bias.
GuySmiley
Well-known member
You are right and it's a sad commentary on our society. People want to be in the cool crowd. Do you really want to win your battles by mockery? Is the war of ideas too scary to engage in honestly?
Funny thing, when the FSM, IPU, etc are brought up in honest debate, it demonstrates a resounding defeat of atheism. You guys better just stick to mockery, after all, its working.
GuySmiley
Well-known member
But you could help me see past that with an example.
Jose Fly
New member
Jose Fly
New member
It's not a zero sum game...try and not think in such a black/white manner. Just because some folks are fighting this "battle" with mockery, that doesn't mean others aren't engaging it in other ways (e.g. intellectually).
Both can occur simultaneously.
How are they a "defeat of atheism"?
GuySmiley
Well-known member
But the monuments get put up, so how is the exposing hypocrisy or a legal double-standard? Hypocrisy or a double standard would be if the monument weren't allowed. But they are allowed, so what's the purpose?
Any pro-religious/anti-secular legislation; religious displays in secular public; disfranchisement of homosexuals...etc.
Quetzal
New member
This whole story is ridiculous. So much wasted effort and for what?
A4T knows...ask her.
Beats me, i cant even get an answer on what christian thing shes trying to mock, i know of no christian who wears anything special for a dmv pic, so shes just plain out weird.
GuySmiley
Well-known member
If I say absolute morality comes from God, atheists will (and have) tell me, oh yeah, well that could be the FSM.
If I say atheists have blind unjustified faith in logic, but Christians believe in God who sustains logic and are therefore justified in using logic, atheists will (and have) tell me, oh yeah, well that could be the FSM.
If I say that the universe requires an uncaused cause and that is God, atheists will (and have) tell me, oh yeah, well that could be the FSM.
Notice they cant stick to their own worldview and answer these challenges. They have to propose a god and therefore just lost the debate.
GuySmiley
Well-known member
Right or wrong, those are all examples of things they actually believe in and aren't mocking others, so they aren't examples of monuments to things they don't believe in just to mock other people.
Quetzal
New member
Yeah, you got me. :idunno:
Jose Fly
New member
So can I conclude that you really don't follow these cases very closely?
The typical scenario is something like this....
Christians in government put up a Christian-themed monument on government property.
Non-Christians object and argue that it constitutes a government endorsement of Christianity, which is unconstitutional.
Christians in government respond by basically saying "We don't care" and leave the monument up.
Non-Christians then apply to have a monument to their beliefs put up on public property, understanding that the government has two choices. It can either, 1) put up the non-Christian monument, thereby creating an open public forum that doesn't favor one belief over others; or 2) deny the non-Christian monument and remove the original Christian monument, thereby removing itself from the issue entirely.
In most cases, the government either chooses #2 on its own, or a court tells them "Either allow everyone, or no one" and the government goes with #2. In some cases they try #1 and it oftentimes turns into a bit of a farce.
So you see the point, right? The non-Christians only apply to put up their own monuments when Christians in government try and put theirs up. And they aren't doing it out of mockery, as much as an effort to force the Christians' hand and make them choose between two legal options (everyone or no one).
And it's your presumption that the DMV lady is any less than stalwart about her anti-religious beliefs?
How so?
because she cant state or show what so called christian belief requires us to wear something special in dmv pics and that we have some right she doesnt.