Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

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The divinity of the soul does not depend on time. It is right here and right now. Our souls are connected to what is infinite, eternal and timeless. We don't have to wait until we're dead to experience this. In fact we have to do it while we are alive.

I understand how you feel, I simply disagree with your theology. In my view, no flesh can be divine, or perfect; because to suggest divinity, you are saying perfection or supremely good. No human is like that; if they think they are or can be, its an illusion.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
I understand how you feel, I simply disagree with your theology. In my view, no flesh can be divine, or perfect; because to suggest divinity, you are saying perfection or supremely good. No human is like that; if they think they are or can be, its an illusion.

We are one with divinity through the soul. That is the message of the New Testament. This is where we need to stop biting on the forbidden fruit. I'm not trying to convinve anyone. I'm suggesting we find out for ourselves. I wouldn't be sitting here telling you any of this if I hadn't already experienced it myself. I can understand rhe skepticism. We have been conditioned since childhood to bury our divinity. We were very close to the soul as children. The resurrection of Lazarus points to our reconnecting with this buried part of us and experiencing an awakening to the truth of our infinite divinity. Once we have a taste we will be asking how we could be convinced otherwise.
 

Mickiel

New member
We are one with divinity through the soul. That is the message of the New Testament. This is where we need to stop biting on the forbidden fruit. I'm not trying to convinve anyone. I'm suggesting we find out for ourselves. I wouldn't be sitting here telling you any of this if I hadn't already experienced it myself. I can understand rhe skepticism. We have been conditioned since childhood to bury our divinity. We were very close to the soul as children. The resurrection of Lazarus points to our reconnecting with this buried part of us and experiencing an awakening to the truth of our infinite divinity. Once we have a taste we will be asking how we could be convinced otherwise.

I am not trying to convince you either. If I meet a person who is convinced that they are sinless and don't ever do anything wrong; what can I say to them? Nothing. Well meeting a person who thinks they are divine, is no different, in my view; they are sinless and can do no wrong. What could I possibly say to such a personal view? They have evolved beyond anything I understand. They are pass me; they are off of my planet; they have left me behind; and I can accept that place in line.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
"The devil is not Lucifer. Look at Isaiah 14:16, Lucifer is described as being "a man"..."
Satan will incarnate a pope. :eek:linger: He counterfeits the incarnation (Jn 1:14).

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay [Dan. 2:40–43].


"This is a remarkable passage of Scripture. More attention is directed to this fourth kingdom than to the other three kingdoms put together. Four verses are used here by Daniel to describe it and interpret it. Only one verse, verse 39, is used to describe the second and third kingdoms, the Medo–Persian and the Graeco–Macedonian empires.

The fourth kingdom is the kingdom of the latter days. Remember that Daniel had told Nebuchadnezzar that that was the reason for the image. God is speaking to Nebuchadnezzar, an idol worshiper, through this image, and He is telling Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. He is a world ruler, and he is concerned about where it is all going to end. My friend, we are living in the period of the latter days, and that is still the question today: What is this world coming to?

We need to stand back and look at this image again for a moment. It is awe–inspiring and of tremendous size. I think it towered over the entire plain of Babylon as Nebuchadnezzar saw it in his vision. It is a multimetallic image. It has a head of gold, and that speaks of Babylon. The breast and arms are of silver—Medo–Persia. The brass is Graeco–Macedonia. The legs are of iron, and that is Rome. In the feet, clay is inserted into the iron, which is the last form of the Roman Empire..." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Daniel) (electronic ed., Vol. 26, pp. 43–47). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"In Ezk. 28:18-19, notice the end of this being, who is not Satan...This being is obviously burnt to a crisp; its not Satan."
God will deal with Satan.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee [Ezek. 28:17].

"“Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty”—pride.

“Thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness.” You see, Solomon, the wisest man, played the fool. And here we see that the greatest creature whom God ever created, perfect (filled with all that could be learned), played the fool. Oh, my friend, God’s children can do the same today!

“I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.” God is going to make a spectacle of Satan someday." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Ezekiel) (electronic ed., Vol. 25, p. 141). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Oh I forgot one more verse, Ezk. 28:9..."

"Eze 28:11–19 This lament over “the king of Tyre” reached behind to the real supernatural source of wickedness, Satan. Cf. Matt. 16:21–23, where Peter was rebuked by the Lord, as under Satanic control and motivation.

28:12 the seal of perfection. The Lord led Ezekiel to address the king as the one to be judged, but clearly the power behind him was Satan. This phrase must be associated with Satan as one perfect in angelic beauty before he rebelled against God. But, it can also relate to “perfection” in the same context of Tyre’s enterprise, topmost in its trade to the ancient world (27:3, 4, 11), glorious in her seafaring efforts (27:24), and the crowning city (Is. 23:8), i.e., “perfect” as Jerusalem also is said to be (16:14; Lam. 2:15). Full of wisdom. This referred to Satan’s wisdom as an angel and to Tyre’s wisdom (skill) in trade (cf. 27:8, 9; 28:4).

28:13 You were in Eden. This could be Satan in the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3:1–15), or it might refer to Tyre’s king in a beautiful environment, a kind of Eden. Every precious stone. This depicts Satan’s rich investiture (Gen. 2:12), and/or Tyre’s king possessing every beautiful stone as Solomon had (1 Kin. 10:10). workmanship of your timbrels. This could refer both to Satan’s once being in charge of heavenly praise and to Tyre’s beautiful musical instruments used in celebration (26:13). you were created. Satan, however, is more likely to have such wealth and beauty, wisdom, and perfection at his creation than this earthly king would have at his birth."MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., pp. 1190–1191). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
I am not trying to convince you either. If I meet a person who is convinced that they are sinless and don't ever do anything wrong; what can I say to them? Nothing. Well meeting a person who thinks they are divine, is no different, in my view; they are sinless and can do no wrong. What could I possibly say to such a personal view? They have evolved beyond anything I understand. They are pass me; they are off of my planet; they have left me behind; and I can accept that place in line.

Let's not get it twisted. There is a part of us that is one with perfection. That does not make the personality without fault. It means we know the true identity more than makes up for the sinfulness of the false identity. Without this information we would just go around trying to find ways to fix ourselves and the feeling that there is something wrong with us which is what most people do for their entire lives. The path to the true self involves stopping trying to correct our sinfulness and simply accepting this part of us....that it will never be perfect. That does not give us license to act any way we want. It's just the reverse in fact. Our divine self takes over our lives and we relinquish desire to control. We know we are on the path by the fruits of our labor.
 

Mickiel

New member
Let's not get it twisted. There is a part of us that is one with perfection. That does not make the personality without fault. It means we know the true identity more than makes up for the sinfulness of the false identity. Without this information we would just go around trying to find ways to fix ourselves. The path to the true self involves stopping trying to correct our sinfulness and simply accepting this part of us....that it will never be perfect. That does not give us license to act any way we want. It's just the reverse in fact. Our divine self takes over our lives and we relinquish desire to control.



I am not twisting anything; if you want to mix divinity with sin, such is your theology. In my view, its like trying to mix oil and water. They just don't mix. But listen, I don't need to understand your path, I don't need to walk on it; I have a path of my own. I am not at one with perfection in any area of my life, but that's just me.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
I am not twisting anything; if you want to mix divinity with sin, such is your theology. In my view, its like trying to mix oil and water. They just don't mix. But listen, I don't need to understand your path, I don't need to walk on it; I have a path of my own. I am not at one with perfection in any area of my life, but that's just me.

I don't know where we're getting the idea of mixing anything but I hear your basic point. Please consider that the same innocent presence you had when you were just a baby is still with you today. One cannot add or take anything away from it but we can forget that it is there. Just because the clouds are covering the sky does not mean the sun is not shining. Peace.
 

Mickiel

New member
I don't know where we're getting the idea of mixing anything but I hear your basic point. Please consider that the same innocent presence you had when you were just a baby is still with you today. One cannot add or take anything away from it but we can forget that it is there. Just because the clouds are covering the sky does not mean the sun is not shining. Peace.



Well you have your view of divinity and evolved personality, and I have mine. Your views reminds me of many I met at spiritualforums.com , I used to post there a lot. Some people there have incredible views on things that most here would call " New Age Theology"; even in my disagreements with some of them, I saw their incredible ways of thinking.

I think new age theology and old covenant thinking, just naturally clash; but if one would listen close at the clash, often its still something there to learn.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
Well you have your view of divinity and evolved personality, and I have mine. Your views reminds me of many I met at spiritualforums.com , I used to post there a lot. Some people there have incredible views on things that most here would call " New Age Theology"; even in my disagreements with some of them, I saw their incredible ways of thinking.

I think new age theology and old covenant thinking, just naturally clash; but if one would listen close at the clash, often its still something there to learn.

I feel a lot of those old covenants are fulfilled through our own liberation. I've heard it said that the history of humanity is one of bondage to freedom. It certainly feels like that is the case in my experience. The clash might not be a clash at all. It might be harmony. Peace between God and men (and women too of course, lol).
 

Mickiel

New member
I feel a lot of those old covenants are fulfilled through our own liberation. I've heard it said that the history of humanity is one of bondage to freedom. It certainly feels like that is the case in my experience. The clash might not be a clash at all. It might be harmony. Peace between God and men (and women too of course, lol).

Well we needed liberation from a lot of Old Covenant thinking ; one of the hardest nuts to crack is the past.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
Well we needed liberation from a lot of Old Covenant thinking ; one of the hardest nuts to crack is the past.

Agreed. When we can consistently place 51% of our attention in the here and now things start to get interesting. Approaching the present moment is analogous to an up and down orientation of time instead of left and right. The Alpha Omega together at once in the same place almost. All moments at once. A part of us begins to move and is made to stand upright. We can begin to experience a dimension of which we are were previously unaware. It can be a bit disorienting so take it easy. Something gives us the feeling that there is absolutely nothing to fear. This is getting close to the miracle of oneness.
 
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KingdomRose

New member
We've noticed (Jn 3:36). :smokie:
Proof please (Eph 4:14). :peach:
All was good (Ge 1:31). All includes angels. They fell due to pride (Is. 14:12–15; Jude 6). They make war on the saints (Rev. 12:7–17). Don't hate us because we're beautiful (Jn 14:21).
Angels were created good (Ge 1:31). They fell due to pride (Is. 14:12–15; Jude 6).
They understand authority (Jude 9).
They sided with Lucifer (Re 12:4). :scripto: Note to self--don't side with losers . :loser:

See:

Did one third of the angels fall with Lucifer?

You want proof that God does not roast people forever? I, for one, have been supplying proof for anyone who has a reasonable bone in their body. To boil it down to the bare bones of the argument:

God said that dead people RETURN TO DUST. (Genesis 3:19) He said nothing about being tortured forever.

Then, in Ecclesiastes 9:5 Solomon wrote that THE DEAD ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOTHING.

Bada bing. Simple. There you have it. You must reconsider your silly notion of a literal place of fiery torture.
 

Mickiel

New member
Why would God need a hell, when he has sworn by his Holiness? Notice Amos 4:2, " The Lord God has sworn by his Holiness!" Interesting thing for God to do, swear by his own self, nothing could be more sacred than this. Nothing more Holy. Notice then again Isaiah 45:23, " I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return to me void; that unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear to me."

That is a sacred holy promise from the Father; hey, NOTHING can stop this! All humans are pre destined to submit to God, there will be no choices in this. None! There will be no free will choosing, God will not be asking humans for their opinion. We will worship God, he has vowed it! He has spoken it and said it will not return to him not accomplished! No religious interpretation can interfere with this holy moment.
 

Mickiel

New member
Sometimes I think for many folks, life on earth is hell.



Well I agree, it most certainly is. People are suffering all over this globe, in diverse horrible manners. What sense would it make, for God to allow humans to live in a type of hell all their lives, then die and go to a worse hell for all eternity?

God is NOT like that! The real God is Loving, patient, Kind, Meek, Merciful, Peaceful, Gentle and intelligent; and eternal punishing is none of those things! And the believers in God who are sold on eternal punishing, is because they don't have any of those fruits of the Spirit in their consciousness. THEY would do that to humans. THEY would hurt humans forever.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
What have you traded in place for your infinite self-worth? It's no wonder we have drowned in a sea of our own self-hatred. Do you not feel the harshness and viciousness of the judgements of your own personality? That kind of energy does not come from God. What's really selfish is trying to attack and prevent others from knowing their own value because you cannot feel your own. THAT is truly selfish.

Wish you could hear how you sound from a point of true humility. You're a sham and a phony. Repent.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Inner divinity is our future with God, those who apply it now are just Kings before their time. The New age people are right about some things, but they just have their timing wrong; they are seeing it too soon, applying it to an age it was not meant for. Christianity is no different, you are Kings before your time. You start out giving Prizebeatz1 decent advice, then you turn and start talking about hell and the darkside. Because your obsessed with it , as he is obsessed with the personality thingy; there is no difference with either obsession. Its how you are seeing now. Its what you think your called to do. At least Prizebeatz1 obsession with his knowledge has a future merit, we will become divine beings.

But your darkside and hell are targeted for death; there is no future in neither.

You're more lost than he is. You both have a familiar Spirit whose name is Wrong Focus.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You are responsible...making your own 'heaven' or 'hell'

You are responsible...making your own 'heaven' or 'hell'

Why would God need a hell, when the world has religion to punish them.


'Hell' is pretty much anywhere that is not resonating with or harmonizing with the condition of 'heaven', which is the condition of God-consciousness. Anywhere where God IS...is heaven. Anywhere where 'God' is not, is 'hell',...but there is nowhere where God is not. So, 'hell' is one's own making, not Gods.
 
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