ECT Who actually revealed the "mystery" of the Gospel of grace ? Was Paul the first ?

glorydaz

Well-known member
Two gospels is an excuse to ignore Jesus' teachings and all the OF the prophets and ALL the other Apostles. I believe they were all on the same side.

That's pretty silly of you to say. We aren't ignoring what we learned as a child just because we now have jobs in the business world.

The OT and the Gospels have been read and understood by those who speak of the "two gospels". They not only know of two but many more...from the OT and the Gospels. I've heard John W teach on how Jesus taught out of the law and why He did so. I've seen teachings coming from the prophets, too, in explanation of what Paul is saying. If they hadn't that knowledge solidly in place, they wouldn't have known what they see now. You have to read the Gospels to see that Jesus was "not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Don't we hear them quoting that all the time?

But when people like you come along and reject such an obvious truth....it's pointless to keep going over the same ground. If you aren't willing to "listen", there's no point in trying to cram it down your throat. I know....I've been where you are. I saw there were things that needed to be rectified, and one must be willing to actually pay attention to what is being said. That's why we're here, isn't it? To build one another up in our knowledge of scripture?

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​
 

dodge

New member
So you think that the Lord Jesus was standing on the earth and telling Nicodemus that He was in heaven?:

"No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven"
(Jn.3:13).​

BRILLIANT!

Is anything to hard for God. Your god is tooooo small !
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Wrong !

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 iMost assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and jyou do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so mmust the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Why does Jesus change from I and WE to Him.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
John 3:16 is the GOSPEL ! Folks can call it kingdom gospel but in reality it is the Gospel of grace laid out by Jesus.

Why would anyone feel the need to go past John 3:16 ?

Jesus said, " for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Only ONE understood "HOW" "The Son" was going to be "Lifted Up".

You have the lavish provision of all 66 books to draw from... Nicodemus didn't.

Dispensational division takes into account what was understood at the time of provision.

Do you "see" it?
 

dodge

New member
glorydaz;4989359]That's pretty silly of you to say. We aren't ignoring what we learned as a child just because we now have jobs in the business world.

Gzlorydaz, Jesus is MARGINALIZED in MAD no matter how you present it it is WRONG. Jesus brought, taught, and died for HIS GOSPEL OF GRACE.

The OT and the Gospels have been read and understood by those who speak of the "two gospels". They not only know of two but many more...from the OT and the Gospels. I've heard John W teach on how Jesus taught out of the law and why He did so. I've seen teachings coming from the prophets, too, in explanation of what Paul is saying. If they hadn't that knowledge solidly in place, they wouldn't have known what they see now. You have to read the Gospels to see that Jesus was "not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Don't we hear them quoting that all the time?

I have been a Christian since 1978 and though those who buy into the "lie" of MAD are growing it is still wrong.

There is only "one" Jesus and there is only gospel of grace as it pertains to Jesus !

But when people like you come along and reject such an obvious truth....it's pointless to keep going over the same ground. If you aren't willing to "listen", there's no point in trying to cram it down your throat. I know....I've been where you are. I saw there were things that needed to be rectified, and one must be willing to actually pay attention to what is being said. That's why we're here, isn't it? To build one another up in our knowledge of scripture?

No it is NOT obvious it is scripture twisting, distortion, and taking the meaning out of context !

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​


And He also said there are sheep of another folks that HE must bring into the fold...OH SNAP Jesus had us on His heart and mind also.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And He also said there are sheep of another folks that HE must bring into the fold...OH SNAP Jesus had us on His heart and mind also.

The folks that believe in "2" or more gospels as pertaining to salvation have distorted scripture to get there,sadly.
 

dodge

New member
Oh, you mean the way you do? Or how about the way you claim a verse is saying what it doesn't say...just what you've been told it says? :chuckle:

Mad, Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, and all the others that marginalize Jesus to follow someone else all do it the same way. They distort , ignore, take out of context and place someone on par or above Jesus and His teachings.
 

northwye

New member
Here is an important part of the Gospel which Paul reveals in Galatians 3:

"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham." Galatians 3: 5-9

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." Galatians 3: 16-17

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29.And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 26-29

Here Paul reveals the mystery that those who are the elect of God are no longer defined physically, by their DNA from Abraham. In Genesis 17:11 God demands obedience to be literally and physically circumcised. "Genesis 17:11 says "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you."

But God says in Deuteronomy 10:16, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." This is a change from Genesis 17: 11, demanding obedience to a literal and physical circumcision to obedience to a metaphoric circumcision - he is not talking about literally cutting part of your heart off. He is talking about something else, a change of heart toward him and toward his doctrines.

Then in Galatians 3: 5-9 God, through Paul, makes a bigger change, shifting from obedience to circumcision - literal or metaphoric - to the working of the Holy Spirit through faith.

Then God, by Paul, goes farther and says that the faith of Abraham was accounted to Abraham as righteousness by God. Abraham becomes righteous before God by his faith. Obedience is being shifted toward faith or belief, an internal change in Abraham like that transformation in Romans 12: 2. "In thee (Abraham) shall all nations (peoples) be blessed - so they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham." Abraham becomes the model of faith; so that it is now Abraham's faith which is given through the sacrifice of Christ to those who accept Christ and his sacrifice.

In his faith Abraham becomes the faith son of Abraham, while before Abraham was the physical, literal father of Christ in that bloodline. But Christ changed the physical bloodline to spiritual faith, which is the foundation of the Gospel.

There are Old Testament texts other than Deuteronomy 10: 16 which talk about obedience to the circumcision of the heart, which is not literal but metaphoric, or spiritual. Remember than C. I. Scofield says that no prophecy can be spiritualized??

"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:" Leviticus 26: 41

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." Jeremiah 4: 4 Again, God is asking for obedience, but not something literal and physical, but a spiritual change of heart.

What exactly are the Christian Zionist's arguing against in this thread? Are they just arguing against whatever is the Truth, whatever is absolute? Yes, but they may be also be arguing against that change from obedience to faith that Paul reveals to be at the heart of the Gospel of Christ in Galatians 3

There is a spiritual growth in the change from obedience to faith, which does not do away with obedience but in surpassing obedience it retains it in faith.
 
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dodge

New member
Only ONE understood "HOW" "The Son" was going to be "Lifted Up".

You have the lavish provision of all 66 books to draw from... Nicodemus didn't.

Dispensational division takes into account what was understood at the time of provision.

Do you "see" it?

I see a fracturing and a division that those in MAD believe and promote that is NOT in scripture.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Gzlorydaz, Jesus is MARGINALIZED in MAD no matter how you present it it is WRONG. Jesus brought, taught, and died for HIS GOSPEL OF GRACE.



I have been a Christian since 1978 and though those who buy into the "lie" of MAD are growing it is still wrong.

There is only "one" Jesus and there is only gospel of grace as it pertains to Jesus !



No it is NOT obvious it is scripture twisting, distortion, and taking the meaning out of context !



And He also said there are sheep of another folks that HE must bring into the fold...OH SNAP Jesus had us on His heart and mind also.



And He also said there are sheep of another folks that HE must bring into the fold...OH SNAP Jesus had us on His heart and mind also.

The folks that believe in "2" or more gospels as pertaining to salvation have distorted scripture to get there,sadly.

Yes, I see you are stuck on the wrong side of the cross.

You're totally unable and unwilling to hear what the RISEN LORD revealed to Paul.
 

musterion

Well-known member
Mad, Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, and all the others that marginalize Jesus to follow someone else all do it the same way. They distort , ignore, take out of context and place someone on par or above Jesus and His teachings.


By your idiotic standard, NO ONE can follow Him without following the words given to someone else to write - if not Paul, then Matthew, et al. Christ Himself physically wrote down NOTHING.

You really are dense, kid.
 

dodge

New member
All you prove is the fact that you are able to trick your mind into believing anything, no matter how ridiculous!

Jesus said," unless you have the faith of a child you will in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven. He said it I believe it and that settles it for me.

You tell a child something they believe it without question or debate and I suggest you follow Jesus that way.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The folks that believe in "2" or more gospels as pertaining to salvation have distorted scripture to get there,sadly.

It is you who is constantly denying the Scriptures.

What was preached to the Jews was the "good news" (gospel) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.And those who believed that gospel were saved (Jn.20:30-31;1 Jn.5:1-5).

What was preached to the Gentiles was the "good news" that Christ died for our sins. And those who believed that truth were saved (1 Cor.15:1-4).

In case you cannot add then one plus one is two!

Not one!
 
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