And, Kabooooooooooom! With that assertion, you can "prove" anything.
You are dismissed, Col. Klink.
ECT Which Gospel?
- Thread starter Danoh
- Start date
And, Kabooooooooooom! With that assertion, you can "prove" anything.
You are dismissed, Col. Klink.
achduke
Active member
Ok Johnny
Pro 3:35 The wise shall inherit glory, but shame shall be the legacy of fools.
Shasta
Well-known member
I have cited Romans 1:16 to make the same point before but never received an answer. The terms "THE GOSPEL" the article with the noun are both in the singular form. It is One Message that is THE (one and only) power of God to bring salvation to TWO groups of people: the Jews and the Gentiles. I agree with you Paul is not saying that the Jews and Gentiles had a separate gospels.
In the same way Galatians 2:7 also means that ONE gospel is to be sent to the two groups. It wast about a division of labor not about sending apostles out with separate message. This is clear in many translations of the Bible.
English Standard Version
On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised
It was about mission work.
New American Standard Bible
But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Holman Christian Standard Bible
On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised,
NET Bible
On the contrary, when they saw that I was entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter was to the circumcised
Shasta
Well-known member
I used to wonder about these too. However I have found that when John speaks of a person "sinning" he uses a Greek present tense verb meaning that they sin continually or continuously (as a lifestyle) By contrast in 1 John 2:1 he says "if any man sins he has an advocate with the Father..." This time the word "sin" is in the past tense which does not indicate a pattern of sinning but the commission of a sin. The Apostle does not expect believers to be live in sin though he does expect that from time to time they will commit sins
Shasta
Well-known member
I would like to hear this answer to this one too. BTW your namesake has some good things to say about Galatians in his homilies.
achduke
Active member
Who do you think the House of Israel became?
Hos 8:8 Israel is swallowed up; now they are among the Gentiles like a vessel in which there is no pleasure.
Who did Christ come for first? Hint The House of Judah was not lost when Christ spoke that.
Mat 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Interplanner
Well-known member
They might sound like two since the non-Jewish person would not have as much background in the Law, but that would soon be cleared up like Paul did in Rom 2, re those without the law.
It is sufficiently clear from the prime paragraph in Rom 3 on the Gospel, that there is just one message, and there is no difference for various groups.
It is sufficiently clear from the prime paragraph in Rom 3 on the Gospel, that there is just one message, and there is no difference for various groups.
BINGO!
So much of the OT speaks of the two houses, yet Dispensationalists make all Israelites Jews.
The reason the Disciples could not preach to the Samaritans or Gentiles before the cross was because those Israelites from the 10 tribes had been divorced from God. Only after the cross were they told to go amongst the Gentiles and Samaritans.
That's how all of Israel was saved.
Shasta
Well-known member
Synthesis, bringing together many principles into a pattern is an important task we have to accomplish when we interpret the scriptures. We have to see the panorama or broad sweep of the counsel of God if we are to have balanced doctrine. This is a worthy goal.
As for me I hesitate to build the big picture until I know that I understand the language of the texts. I have been in error before and I have known many people in much worse error who took this and that verse and made it all seem to fit together - but it ended up being false. To me verses must be addressed first because, if I am honest, the language itself will prevent me from extrapolating into my imagination. I am most confident when my studies can disprove my presuppositions and that happens sometimes. I have changed my mind on some rather large issues since I have been coming here. Still we have to be careful about constructing those schema when a lot of verses have to be adjusted to fit.
Shasta
Well-known member
In Romans 1:16 Paul indicates that there is only one gospel. Rather than accept that you have pulled up all kinds of scriptures that speak about the gospel under the assumption I suppose that this shows them as different and separate gospels. I think those other scriptures just show that the gospel is bigger than what any single verse says. The good news encompasses a great many truths. If you tell a person to put their faith in Jesus and their sins will be forgiven, they would have to know something about who He was and what He did. The whole body of knowledge that brings salvation is the called the gospel and because one writer emphasized this part or that does not mean they are proclaiming different gospels. As to the truths proclaimed in the four synoptics by Jesus - that too was gospel and contained salvific truth even then although the capstone of Redemption would not be completed or understood until Jesus was resurrected.
achduke
Active member
Johnny you need to pick up your bible. Maybe start at the beginning of the book and not the end this time.
Rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved."
Who are these Gentiles that Paul is talking about?
Gen 48:19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great; but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations." (Gentiles)
Hos 1:9 Then God said: "Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I will not be your God.
Hos 5:5 The pride of Israel testifies to his face; therefore Israel and Ephraim stumble in their iniquity; Judah also stumbles with them.
Hos 7:8 "Ephraim has mixed himself among the peoples; Ephraim is a cake unturned.
Hos 9:17 My God will cast them away, because they did not obey Him; and they shall be wanderers among the nations.
Hos 11:8 "How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim? My heart churns within Me; My sympathy is stirred.
Hos 14:4 "I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely, for My anger has turned away from him.
Hos 2:23 Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; then I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they shall say, 'You are my God!' "
Wow, tough guy Brucie! You just mesmerized all of TOL!!! We never heard that "you need to pick up your bible. Maybe start at the beginning of the book and not the end this time."!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you followed it up, with spamming a slew of random verses! You must have gone to the Squeaky school of "How to Debate without really debating." We never saw that technique before!!!
No, Brucie, you can't touch me, biblically speaking. You are irrelevant on TOL. I thus, apologize to you, for taking you seriously, initially. Now, sit down, Brucie boy. Are you diggin' it? Excellent.
Watch: Not only pick up your bible(you obviously taught us that stumper cliche),read, study, meditate. survey, this:
Genesis-Revelation.
So there-I just one upped your random spam of verses. "Nuttin to this debatin' thin, Lucy."
:up:
(Gen 48:19 YLT) And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'
(Rom 11:25 YLT) For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, of this secret -- that ye may not be wise in your own conceits -- that hardness in part to Israel hath happened till the fulness of the nations may come in;
If Dispensationalists (Darby followers) understood this, they wouldn't deny the New Covenant.
:up:
Peter tells us this was fulfilled
(1 Peter 2:10 KJV) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Dispensationalists claim Peter was addressing Jews.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Only the Israelites from the 10 tribes were told they were not a people, and that God would not have mercy on them.
God had mercy on the Jews:
(Hosea 1:7 KJV) But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,....
Yet, the Darby followers claim Peter was addressing Jews.
A Jew may be an Israelite and an Israelite may not necessarily be a Jew.
But it is their reunification as "one sheepfold" with "David" as "their Shepard" that is always ultimately in view.
All Jews are Israelites, not all Israelites are Jews. The Israelites from the 10 tribes of the Northern Nation of Israel were not Jews. The first time the word "Jews" is found in the KJV, the Jews are at war against Israel.
The New Covenant was put in place at the cross by the shed blood of Christ Jesus.
In doing so, He joined the stick of Ephraim with the stick of Judah.
There is now one shepherd with one flock.
We're still talking apples and oranges. When I want to know the intended sense of a word or phrase; I search out its intended sense in my KJB. I find it is all I need, Romans 12:2 as to 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
The Psalmist had this same - "the Book is all I need" - approach - Psalm 111:
10. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Here that principle is again - Proverbs 3:
1. My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
2. For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
3. Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4. So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
Verse 7, for example, relates the need to "depart from evil."
Do I need "the Hebrew" to help me arrive at the "understanding" of what that "evil" being spoken of is when it is obvious from the above passages that following their instruction will bring about the understanding I seek?
I am speaking of a principle or general rule of thumb the above is speaking of and that it also asserts all one need do is follow it to the understanding it promises.
Likewise as to this "two gospel" issue - much more than simply one passage or two is what points to their existence - the witness of their recurrent pattern throughout.
True. Your books and their resulting same books based manner of reasoning about a thing into it, have led you to that.
In other words, you assert that about Jews due to how you approach your study of the term - through the term itself.
In contrast to doing so through identifying first, any word's, term's, or phrase's characteristic's as revealed by each's use where each is found within the narrative; seeking out said characteristics via recurrent patterns, towards identifying said characteristics; followed by tracing those back.
Given how often, words, terms, phrases, and characteristics are interchanged throughout Scripture; the need for this principle, or general rule of thumb, is a constant throughout Scripture.
Approach things this way and it takes you much further back then the limits of some later label can.
In fact, where those within your school will differ, in their respective understanding on one matter or another, as well as where those in our school will differ with one another, this principle is often the reason for that difference that results in each's differing understanding - again; even within a same school.
rougueone
New member
Chrys, you left out some critical components of of " ye keep in memory what I preached unto you ".....which many people do. Including myself.
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, ( saved )
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, "unless you believed in vain"....
Being the person is lead astray by another teaching. Or their confession of Jesus was not heartfelt-sincere.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,…
Which confirmes/compliments: 1 Corinthians 15:1:4
The Word Brings Salvation. Who is the "Word"? John 1:1,2,3,4 KJV
Where is Gods word exclusively found? The 66 books of the Bible.
…But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART "--
that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,...
Who gives us our faith? Hebrews 12:1,2 -----Jesus. And that is who they ( Paul?) is preaching.
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.…
Pertaining to salvation, this is the most critical to 'ye keep in memory".
After salvation we get to work, remembering, by doing, doing by what the word of God states. We cannot remember, it all ( less the 1% who are gifted), but we submit to God moment by moment. Growing with Jesus. Repenting of our sin's. Growing more. And hopefully, sinning less.
Hope this helps Chrys.