Derf
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I think they are both indicating we are NOT in His presence BEFORE His coming, but only AT His coming.
Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
- Thread starter MarcATL
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I think they are both indicating we are NOT in His presence BEFORE His coming, but only AT His coming.
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
Yes, life continues after the death of the body.
Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Did you read that? Jesus says they shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces, and that they do not enter. If men cannot enter heaven, then why does Jesus say what he says?
Yes, life continues after the death of the body.
Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
Did you read that? Jesus says they shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces, and that they do not enter. If men cannot enter heaven, then why does Jesus say what he says?
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
Jesus actually demonstrated to Peter, James, and John that the saints of the Old Covenant are alive when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the mountain of transfiguration. Read about the transfiguration here:
Mark 9:2-6
The Transfiguration
2After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.
5Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6(He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)
Acts 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
Did you read that? The Pharisees acknowledge that there are angels and spirits. If there is no such thing as spirits living outside of our bodies, then how is it that the Pharisees believe it and were not rebuked for believing it? From the scripture, we get that the Pharisees are commended for the belief in angels and spirits.
Read Mark 12:24-27 what Jesus replied to the Sadducees when they came to Jesus with a question about the resurrection. Read in Luke where Jesus says, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."
Mark 12:24-27 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage: they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising---have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!"
Luke 20:34-38 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."
Jesus says even Moses showed that the dead rise, and it was Moses who appeared on the mountain of transfiguration.
Jesus actually demonstrated to Peter, James, and John that the saints of the Old Covenant are alive when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the mountain of transfiguration. Read about the transfiguration here:
Mark 9:2-6
The Transfiguration
2After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.
5Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6(He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)
Acts 23:8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
Did you read that? The Pharisees acknowledge that there are angels and spirits. If there is no such thing as spirits living outside of our bodies, then how is it that the Pharisees believe it and were not rebuked for believing it? From the scripture, we get that the Pharisees are commended for the belief in angels and spirits.
Read Mark 12:24-27 what Jesus replied to the Sadducees when they came to Jesus with a question about the resurrection. Read in Luke where Jesus says, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."
Mark 12:24-27 Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage: they will be like the angels in heaven. Now about the dead rising---have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!"
Luke 20:34-38 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive."
Jesus says even Moses showed that the dead rise, and it was Moses who appeared on the mountain of transfiguration.
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
Jesus says he will give us water welling up to eternal life. You want me to believe that this water wells up to our death, and then begins again thousands of years later at the resurrection.
John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
Jesus says to work for food that ENDURES TO eternal life. We do not work for food that endures to death in the ground then later an eternal life. How is it enduring if a person's life stops?
John 6:44-51
44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Did you hear that? Those in the Old Testament ate the manna and died, but Jesus gives us bread that we may eat and not die.
John 6:53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."
Jesus says If a man eats his flesh and drinks his blood REMAINS in him.
John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
Jesus says he will give us water welling up to eternal life. You want me to believe that this water wells up to our death, and then begins again thousands of years later at the resurrection.
John 6:27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
Jesus says to work for food that ENDURES TO eternal life. We do not work for food that endures to death in the ground then later an eternal life. How is it enduring if a person's life stops?
John 6:44-51
44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. 48I am the bread of life. 49Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Did you hear that? Those in the Old Testament ate the manna and died, but Jesus gives us bread that we may eat and not die.
John 6:53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."
Jesus says If a man eats his flesh and drinks his blood REMAINS in him.
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
John 8:48-59
The Claims of Jesus About Himself
48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Abraham saw Jesus’ day. If Abraham no longer lived, how did he see Jesus’ day?
John 8:48-59
The Claims of Jesus About Himself
48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Abraham saw Jesus’ day. If Abraham no longer lived, how did he see Jesus’ day?
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
John 12:26”Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me."
This is in the passage where Jesus predicts his death. Jesus is going back to the Father.
John 14:1-6. You know the way to the place where I am going."
Again, Jesus is talking about going back to heaven to his Father.
Jesus Christ who told us… “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going. I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:1, 2, 3, 4, 6)
Jesus says that he is going to prepare a place for them and that he will come back and takes them to be with him. We see in Acts that Jesus came for Stephen. See Acts 7:55 But Stephen full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.
We see that Jesus came back for Stephen. In addition, we see in 2 Timothy 4:18 that Paul is confident that Jesus will come back to get him and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom. See the following...
2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
John 12:26”Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me."
This is in the passage where Jesus predicts his death. Jesus is going back to the Father.
John 14:1-6. You know the way to the place where I am going."
Again, Jesus is talking about going back to heaven to his Father.
Jesus Christ who told us… “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going. I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:1, 2, 3, 4, 6)
Jesus says that he is going to prepare a place for them and that he will come back and takes them to be with him. We see in Acts that Jesus came for Stephen. See Acts 7:55 But Stephen full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.
We see that Jesus came back for Stephen. In addition, we see in 2 Timothy 4:18 that Paul is confident that Jesus will come back to get him and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom. See the following...
2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
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John 14:16-18
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
This scripture Jesus says that he shall give another Comforter that may abide with them for ever, note the word for ever.
John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
John 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of it."
John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
This scripture is in the passages where Jesus speaks to his disciples, before the guards come to arrest and have Jesus crucified. In addition, where is Jesus going? Jesus is going to heaven, of course! Jesus says he wants us to be where he is.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
This scripture Jesus says that he shall give another Comforter that may abide with them for ever, note the word for ever.
John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
John 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of it."
John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
This scripture is in the passages where Jesus speaks to his disciples, before the guards come to arrest and have Jesus crucified. In addition, where is Jesus going? Jesus is going to heaven, of course! Jesus says he wants us to be where he is.
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1 Corinthians 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 6:16-17 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
While we live in the flesh in this world, we unite ourselves physically, in the flesh, with our wife, or husband, or with anyone, through inter course. BUT when one is united with Jesus, we are one with him in spirit. He is Spirit and our spirit is connected to him. Spirits do not die. We are our spirit.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know---God knows.
If our spirits do not live on in consciousness, then Paul would not ever have suggested it.
Philippians 1:22-24 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Philippians 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:2-3 Set your affection on things above, not on things on earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
We are dead in the flesh but alive in the spirit.
John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cane did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
1 Peter 3:19-20 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
See in Hebrews 12:23, Paul speaks about faith in Jesus making the spirits of righteous men perfect, the righteous men and prophets of the Old Testament. Faith in Jesus makes these spirits perfect. If our spirits cease to exist, or are conscious of nothing, then how can spirits be made perfect by their faith in Jesus Christ. Also note where this scripture says the spirits of the righteous men made perfect are...in heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:16-17 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
While we live in the flesh in this world, we unite ourselves physically, in the flesh, with our wife, or husband, or with anyone, through inter course. BUT when one is united with Jesus, we are one with him in spirit. He is Spirit and our spirit is connected to him. Spirits do not die. We are our spirit.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know---God knows.
If our spirits do not live on in consciousness, then Paul would not ever have suggested it.
Philippians 1:22-24 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Philippians 3:14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:2-3 Set your affection on things above, not on things on earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
We are dead in the flesh but alive in the spirit.
John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cane did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
1 Peter 3:19-20 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
See in Hebrews 12:23, Paul speaks about faith in Jesus making the spirits of righteous men perfect, the righteous men and prophets of the Old Testament. Faith in Jesus makes these spirits perfect. If our spirits cease to exist, or are conscious of nothing, then how can spirits be made perfect by their faith in Jesus Christ. Also note where this scripture says the spirits of the righteous men made perfect are...in heaven.
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Where Does It Say In The Bible That You Go Directly To Heaven When You Die?
I am a fighter for the truth. I am posting so much on this topic because it is of special importance to me. I am giving the best defense of the truth that I can.
I want to also take this time to speak against soul sleep; since soul sleep is a major doctrine against the truth.
I am a fighter for the truth. I am posting so much on this topic because it is of special importance to me. I am giving the best defense of the truth that I can.
I want to also take this time to speak against soul sleep; since soul sleep is a major doctrine against the truth.
2 Corinthians 5:8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
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That is one of the most powerful scriptures proving life in heaven after the death of the body.
way 2 go
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Paul thought he would be alive for Jesus second coming
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive,
the criminal said remember me & Jesus corrected him saying Today
Luk 23:42 And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.
Paul says to die is gain which being currently with Jesus in heaven would be and
no indication of a time delay between departing & being with Christ
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor. Yet I do not know what I shall choose.
Php 1:23 For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
so Paul & the criminal are with God and God is going to bring Paul & the criminal with him
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Soul sleep believers try to use scripture from Ecclesiastes to support their false beliefs that our spirits do not live on after the death of our bodies, but the part of Ecclesiastes they use is about a message of if there were no God. Ecclesiastes also says the dead have no more reward (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Do you believe that the dead have no more reward? Jesus says he is coming with his reward (Rev 22:12). The Old Testament believers believed in a resurrection (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; and others), so why would Solomon say the dead have no more reward if not to imagine a life without God.
Derf
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I think the best answer for Mat 22:32 is this:
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, [Act 2:34 KJV]
And earlier Peter had said:
Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. [Act 2:29 KJV]
We might answer back that his body is still in the grave, but not his spirit, yet what say you about who the real person is--is it the "inner man" as [MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION] has been saying? Or is it the whole man?
If the inner man, then David must be ascended into heaven at this point, right? Peter didn't seem to think so. If the whole man, then David's body is still dead, and not ascended into heaven. Either way, it doesn't seem like David is ascended into heaven at this point in time. Only if David's spirit is NOT the real David does Peter's statement make sense to me.
And is David different from the patriarchs? I don't think so. They must be in the same condition as he is. Dead, but promised life--a foregone conclusion.
And this was even after the cross, after resurrection, after Christ's ascension. So if He preached to the souls in prison, why aren't they ascended into heaven?
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Soul sleepers also use a few scriptures in Psalms to try to say the spirits of humans die with the body. There is no scripture in Psalms that says that. One must remember too that the Old Testament people did not yet have the entire gospel. Ecclesiastes is about earthly man. Read what Solomon says in Ecclesiastes in 3:18-21 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”
Did you read how Solomon says, “Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Solomon says, “Who knows…” Surely, the New Testament teaches us about what is spiritual and about what happens to us spiritually.
Did you read how Solomon says, “Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Solomon says, “Who knows…” Surely, the New Testament teaches us about what is spiritual and about what happens to us spiritually.
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Soul sleep believers also teach that Abraham saw Jesus’ day as a prophecy only. See John 8:56 where Jesus tells us Abraham waited to see Jesus’ day, Abraham saw it and was glad. Abraham died, yet was alive in the spirit. To believe Abraham was no longer alive and only saw Jesus’ day as a prophecy goes against the message of the passage how Jesus is explaining that all are alive to God. Moreover, if Abraham only saw Jesus’ day in a prophecy hundreds of years earlier, then what did Jesus mean by saying Abraham rejoiced at the “thought” of seeing his day; he “saw it” and was glad. Having the “thought” of seeing his day signifies he had to wait to see it, if it were only a vision in a prophecy that he saw, what would there be to wait to see? It is not as if he would wait to see a vision in a prophecy.
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In addition, soul sleep believers falsely teach that the spirits in prison that Jesus preached the gospel to are not spirits of men, that they are fallen angels. 1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
However, the scriptures say Jesus preached to those who are now dead. Angels do not die. Furthermore, why would those angels live according to God concerning the spirit? Do the angels who left their post have another chance at salvation?
Another theory from some soul sleep believers is that Jesus preached the gospel during the times of Noah. However, the scripture say Jesus died and then went to prison/hell and preached to the spirits---after he died on the cross.
However, the scriptures say Jesus preached to those who are now dead. Angels do not die. Furthermore, why would those angels live according to God concerning the spirit? Do the angels who left their post have another chance at salvation?
Another theory from some soul sleep believers is that Jesus preached the gospel during the times of Noah. However, the scripture say Jesus died and then went to prison/hell and preached to the spirits---after he died on the cross.
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The soul sleep denominations also teach that all ghosts spoken of in the Bible are really demons. However, even the Pharisees believed that there were angels and spirits. When Paul was before the Sanhedrin, there was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. “We find nothing wrong with this man,” they said, “What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” The Pharisees were speaking of Paul and Paul’s story about Jesus speaking to him on the road to Damascus. Do they really think that the Pharisees were thinking a demon spirit spoke to Paul?
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Soul sleep believers also insist that if our spirits lived on, then the promise of resurrection would be unnecessary. Jesus is going to redeem our bodies. We should have our bodies redeemed. The devil has the power over death; sin is the power over death, and Jesus took that power away at His resurrection from the dead. We will all get back what the devil took away, our bodies.
They also quote Genesis 3:19 and claim if we do not believe like them it means we do not believe God when he says we will die. However, we do die physically, and there is a spiritual death, a separation from God. Through Jesus, we are reconciled to God physically and spiritually. When we are saved, God Himself lives inside our body.
They also quote Genesis 3:19 and claim if we do not believe like them it means we do not believe God when he says we will die. However, we do die physically, and there is a spiritual death, a separation from God. Through Jesus, we are reconciled to God physically and spiritually. When we are saved, God Himself lives inside our body.
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Denominations that believe in soul sleep, they teach that Peter, James, and John saw merely a “vision” when Elijah and Moses were speaking to Jesus, and that it was not really Elijah and Moses. They treat the word vision as if it means illusion, or mirage. Some Bible translations do not even use the word “vision”, even if all translations used the word “vision,” that would not change the scriptures to say what soul sleep believers are trying to have us believe. The scripture plainly says that Jesus transformed BEFORE THEM. See Matthew 17:2And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
I call the soul sleep belief “the doctrine of death.” They do not believe in the life of the spirit that Jesus gives to those he saves. Jesus says his words are full of Spirit and life (John 6:63). When we obey Jesus, our spirits become more alive within us as we become more conscious of our spirits, as we grow more spiritual, in the true life in which God wants us to live.
Read what Hezekiah says in Isaiah:
Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
Was not Hezekiah remembering scripture?
Psalm 6:5 Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?
Psalm 30:9
“What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?
Psalm 88:10
Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?
Psalm 88:11
Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction?
Psalm 115:17
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;
Psalm 118:17
I will not die but live, and will proclaim what the LORD has done.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Psalm 28:1
Of David. To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.
These are scriptures of men speaking on their own in times of turmoil. God gives them life and healing in this world, but does it mean there really is no spirit that lives on after the death of our bodies? The scriptures in the New Testament show us our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.
The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.
The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.
The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.
The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.
Jesus shows us that after being tortured and dying that we continue to live in the spirit.
You look to the Old Testament for spiritual information, but the New Testament is prophecies fulfilled and revelation of the Spirit, and our spirit.
I call the soul sleep belief “the doctrine of death.” They do not believe in the life of the spirit that Jesus gives to those he saves. Jesus says his words are full of Spirit and life (John 6:63). When we obey Jesus, our spirits become more alive within us as we become more conscious of our spirits, as we grow more spiritual, in the true life in which God wants us to live.
Read what Hezekiah says in Isaiah:
Isaiah 38:18
For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise; those who go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.
Was not Hezekiah remembering scripture?
Psalm 6:5 Among the dead no one proclaims your name. Who praises you from the grave?
Psalm 30:9
“What is gained if I am silenced, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?
Psalm 88:10
Do you show your wonders to the dead? Do their spirits rise up and praise you?
Psalm 88:11
Is your love declared in the grave, your faithfulness in Destruction?
Psalm 115:17
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to the place of silence;
Psalm 118:17
I will not die but live, and will proclaim what the LORD has done.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Psalm 28:1
Of David. To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.
These are scriptures of men speaking on their own in times of turmoil. God gives them life and healing in this world, but does it mean there really is no spirit that lives on after the death of our bodies? The scriptures in the New Testament show us our spirits live on after the death of our bodies.
The Old Testament was about earthy man, and earthly things. See Romans 7:4-6.
The New Testament is about the spiritual. See John 6:63.
The Old Testament was prophecies about what was coming. See Romans 16:26.
The New Testament is prophecies fulfilled, and revelations revealed about the spiritual. See Ephesians 6:19.
Jesus shows us that after being tortured and dying that we continue to live in the spirit.
You look to the Old Testament for spiritual information, but the New Testament is prophecies fulfilled and revelation of the Spirit, and our spirit.