I do not know from this what the first death is, nor what the second death is.
ECT What Kind of Death?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
I do not know from this what the first death is, nor what the second death is.
Hi and I did not change what you said IMMINENT that you used , translators did !!
One is in Zech 14:4 and the other is Matt 24:3 - 14- 29 and coincides with Acts 1:17 where all the verbs are in the FUTURE TENSE !!
These last days are the LAST DAYS of Israel !!
dan p
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The second death is "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."
The first death is what happens when an unbeliever sins and is separated from the source of spiritual life, the LORD God.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I can't understand what you are saying.
Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden. Jesus did not sin. Are you asking about a person's first sin? Or, rather, when a person first sins? Was there a time when you had no sin and then you did sin?
I do not know when the first death is. I do not know when the second death is.
Shalom.
Jacob
Hi and the Greek word EGGIZO is translated :
Draw nigh 12X
Be at hand 9X
Come nigh 8X
Come near 5X
Draw near 4X
Miscellaneous 5X
All by the translators !!
dan p
Your question was automatiy answered in that post - WITHIN those very passages I cited in which how Israel fell is depicted.
Here is another way of saying some of what I posted...and while I'm at it, a word or two on the water baptism issue, to others in general...
What "economy" had been in place prior to Acts 9?
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Romans 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
What "economy" does all that appear to be describing as having taken place within?
The Law (and the Prophets).
Which was why water baptism to begin with - the Law and the Prophets.
John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
Oh I know what you'll now attempt to point out.
To that issue then...this in verse 17...
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
THAT is THIS Grace here - a PROPHESIED Grace...
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister OF THE CIRCUMCISION for the truth of God, TO CONFIRM THE PROMISES MADE UNTO THE FATHERS: 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; AS IT IS WRITTEN, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, WITH HIS PEOPLE.
Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
All the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
BUT NOW He Whom they had Prophesied OF was in their midst.
BUT He himself had also said...
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
They were STILL under THAT Economy - of the Law and the Prophets.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Further...
Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
Which, is why water baptism - Moses' Seat...
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you are saying that no one from Israel was saved during the dispensation of the law?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
In an article on the Scofield Prophecy Studies web site Dr. Mal Couch, the founder and president of the Tyndale Theological Seminary, writes the following commentary on James 5:8:
"IS AT HAND. ('egizo') This is actually two words put together, en= in and hand. This is a verb here used with the Perfect Active Indicative. It should read: 'The coming of the Lord has come right up to the present, and 'is in the hand,' ..It is 'in the vicinity, close by.' Liddell & Scott translate this 'to be imminent, to bring near, bring up to, to be at the point of, approximate'" (Couch, Greek Exegesis of the Rapture Passages, James 5:7-8; 9b).
The word "imminent"means "likely to occur at any moment; impending."
Paul Sadler of the Berean Bible Society said the following about the event when the saints will be caught up:
"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).
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Hi , Jerry and the translation in James 5:8 is DRAWETH NIGH / EGGIZO and not IMMINENT and is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , ACT VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD OF FACT !!
I like the word APPROACHING and if you can find a better English word , fine !!
Jesus second coming is not secret as Matt 24:27-30 have said !!
dan p
Nope.
That is what YOU are reading INTO what I said.
I said what I said WITHIN what I said about Unbelieving Israel.
Just goes to show once more that too often you read your own context into a thing.
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Hi Jerry , and this my belief !!
In Heb 11 we see that Moses , was saved by FAITH !!
And Peter was saved by FAITH , a Law keeper !!
Greeks words HAVING BELIEVED are in the Greek PERFECT TENSE and that means OSAS !!
Th e UNPARDONABLE SIN does not apply to those in Acts 21:20 !!
By 2 Cor 3:16 any Jew can be saved today , otherwise Gal 3:28 is wrong as there are Jews and GENTILES IN THE B O C !!
dan p
I agree.
With the BOC anyone of Ethnic Israel can be in the BOC whether they are law keepers or not.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You once again prove that you are confused. You said nothing about "unbelieving" Israel:
According to what you said here, Paul's nation Israel was not saveable during the during the dispensation of the law.
I think you need a rest from posting on this forum. Your ideas are getting stranger and stranger.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
In your opinion, were there some believing Jews living during the beginning of the present dispensation who were not in the Body of Christ? If your answer is "yes," then could you tell me exactly what determined if a believing Jew at that time was in the Body.
Thanks!
Yes.
I would say it would be along the lines of choosing to rely on the BOC gospel instead of the Kingdom gospel.
Nope.
What passages did DanP cite, where he asserted his agreement with my post?
It is you who are mis-reading into a thing.
As usual.
Rom. 5: 6-8.
Hi Jerry and read Rom 16:7-15 were " in Christr before Paul !!
Be careful , because it is Paul that says what being in Christ really means and OF those saved BEFORE Paul was saved !!
And those Messiannic Jews , who were in Christ , before Paul were in Judea !!
I can defense , what in Christ means !!
dan p
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Both were GOD's people.
Both given a ministry.